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  • Ahd-e-Alast And Committing Shirk Unknowingly

    Posted by Samama Fahim on June 14, 2023 at 2:26 pm

    اے پیغمبر انہیں وہ وقت بھی یاد دلاؤ، جب تمھارے پروردگار نے بنی آدم کی پشتوں سے اُن کی نسل کو نکالا اور اُنھیں خود اُن کے اوپر گواہ ٹھہرایا تھا۔ اُس نے پوچھا تھا: کیا میں تمھارا رب نہیں ہوں؟ انھوں نے جواب دیا: ہاں، آپ ہی ہمارے رب ہیں، ہم اس کی گواہی دیتے ہیں۔ یہ ہم نے اس لیے کیا کہ قیامت کے دن تم کہیں یہ نہ کہہ دو کہ ہم تو اس بات سے بے خبر ہی رہے یا اپنا یہ عذر پیش کرو کہ شرک کی ابتدا تو ہمارے باپ دادا نے پہلے سے کر رکھی تھی اور ہم بعد کو ان کی اولاد ہوئے ہیں، پھر کیا آپ ان غلط کاروں کے عمل کی پاداش میں ہمیں ہلاک کریں گے؟ ہم اس طرح اپنی آیتوں کی تفصیل کرتے ہیں، اس لیے کہ لوگوں پر حجت قائم ہو اور اس لیے کہ وہ رجوع کریں۔

    (Al-A’raaf 172-174; I have not used parentheses that were in the original translation)

    In these ayaats, those who do shirk following in the footsteps of their forefathers are referred to. But they should be those who do shirk knowingly. There are people in the sub-continent who do shirk but do not consider it to be shirk. For example, they call upon the dead saints for help. Would this ayat apply to these people?

    Translation of the question:

    ان آیات میں ان کی بات کی گئی ہے جو اپنے باپ دادا کے نقش قدم پر چلتے ہوئے شرک کرتے ہیں۔ لیکن یہ وہ لوگ ہونگے جو جان بوجھ کر شرک کرتے ہیں۔ ہندوستان و پاکستان میں بہت سے لوگ ہیں جو شرک کرتے ہیں لیکن اسے شرک نہیں سمجھتے۔ مثال کے طور پر وہ مردہ بزرگوں کو مدد کے لیے پکارتے ہیں۔ تو کیا ان آیات کا اطلاق ایسے لوگوں پر ہوگا؟

    Umer replied 5 months, 2 weeks ago 2 Members · 5 Replies
  • 5 Replies
  • Ahd-e-Alast And Committing Shirk Unknowingly

    Umer updated 5 months, 2 weeks ago 2 Members · 5 Replies
  • Umer

    Moderator June 14, 2023 at 7:28 pm

    There case should be seen as similar to Christians for example, where they perform polytheism but do not accept it as such and instead provide an interpretation for it (Tawil). That is why their punishment after itmam-e-hujjat was different than that of Polytheists of Mecca at the time of Prophet Muhammad (sws). Punishment was there nevertheless, but severity of that punishment decreased comparatively.

    This verse of Quran quoted above indicates that in the matter of belief in one God, it is not easy matter to come up with interpretations and excuses. However, open polytheism is an unforgivable sin but polytheism of interpretation will be subject to acceptance or rejection of interpretation/excuse (‘Tawil‘) in the court of Allah.

    Please refer to the video below from 43:07 to 49:05

    • Samama Fahim

      Member June 15, 2023 at 6:52 am

      As far as the words of the translations are concerned, it seems that the ayaats point to the fact that it is not possible for a person to commit shirk knowingly. As far as I understand, it is like committing murder and thinking that it is a good thing, which is not possible for a normal person. However, those who do polytheism of interpretation, but the true message of a prophet never reached them (for example, Christians), then is Ahd-e-Alast binding on such people in terms of committing shirk?

    • Samama Fahim

      Member June 15, 2023 at 7:48 am

      Correction: It is not possible for a person to commit shirk knowingly and think that it is okay.

    • Umer

      Moderator June 19, 2023 at 8:30 pm

      According to this verse, the covenant of Alast is binding on every person whether that person lives in isolation or belongs to any religious group. The example quoted by you was very apt since everyone knows murder is not a good thing because it is also part of our innate morality just like innate concept of God. However, when one believes in that and still commits either of these acts not consciously but because of a certain interpretation then other factors would need to be considered as well, like the interpretation itself, honesty of a person while following that interpretation, what was that person’s attitude when presented with counter arguments, whether that person knowingly rejected those arguments as well and followed the wrong discourse etc etc.

      Following two videos will also be helpful in this regard:

      Discussion 37854 • Reply 37863

      Discussion 55838 • Reply 55882

  • Umer

    Moderator June 14, 2023 at 7:28 pm

    Please also refer to the video below from 38:38 to 45:43

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