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  • Did Hazrat Ali (rta) Lift The Door Of Khayber?

    Posted by Muhammad Sami ud-Din on July 8, 2023 at 1:03 pm

    Asselamu aleykum,

    In one of the stories on the life of our dear hero, Hazrat Ali (rta), we have learned so many times that, Hz. Ali (rta) lift the door of Khayber, as his shield on the Battle of Khayber. What the point of view of Ustad-e-Mohtaram, on it?

    Thanks.

    Muhammad Sami ud-Din replied 5 months, 3 weeks ago 2 Members · 4 Replies
  • 4 Replies
  • Did Hazrat Ali (rta) Lift The Door Of Khayber?

  • Umer

    Moderator July 10, 2023 at 2:52 am

    نبی اکرم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کے آزادکردہ حضرت ابورافع کی روایت ہے کہ ہم قلعۂ خیبر کے پاس پہنچے تو ایک یہودی نے حضرت علی پروار کیا۔ ڈھال ان کے ہاتھ سے چھوٹ گئی تو انھوں نے قلعے کا ایک دروازہ اکھاڑ کر ڈھال کے طور پرپکڑ لیا۔ اللہ نے فتح دے دی تو بھی دروازہ حضرت علی کے ہاتھ میں تھا۔ حضرت ابورافع کہتے ہیں کہ میں اور سات دوسرے آدمیوں نے مل کر دروازہ پلٹنے کی کوشش کی، لیکن ہم سے ہلا بھی نہیں۔ شبلی نعمانی کہتے ہیں کہ یہ روایتیں ابن اسحاق اور حاکم نے روایت کی ہیں، لیکن بازاری قصے ہیں۔ علامہ سخاوی نے’ مقاصد حسنہ‘ میں تصریح کی ہے کہ سب لغوروایتیں ہیں۔ علامہ ذہبی نے ’میزان الاعتدال‘ میں علی بن احمدفروخ کے حال میں اس روایت کو نقل کرکے لکھا ہے کہ یہ روایت منکر ہے (سیرۃ النبی :جلد اول، خیبر)۔

    (Excerpt from Research Article by Dr. Waseem Mufti)

    ___

    Complete Article: https://www.javedahmedghamidi.org/#!/ishraq/5c9b497ddf25cde54fba782b?articleId=5c9c94e7df25cde54fba8d95&decade=2020&year=2023'>حضرت علی رضی اللہ عنہ (۴)

  • Muhammad Sami ud-Din

    Member October 15, 2023 at 3:09 pm

    This incident has also been narrated by Hadhrat Jabir ibn Abd Allah al-Ansari (rta). He later became one of the Shi’an-e Ali (rta). What is your opinion on that narration?

    And people says that Imam Dhahabi (ra) himself narrated this narration in Tareekh Al Islam.

    Here is the complete list of the scholars who narrated this incident.

    https://www.al-islam.org/ask/do-we-have-authentic-narrations-about-imam-ali-as-breaking-the-door-and-using-it-as-a-shield-in-the-battle-of-khyber-could-you-please-share-the-sources/sayyed-mohammad-al-musawi

    Please shed some light on it, if this tradition is weak in Farahi school.

    • Umer

      Moderator October 18, 2023 at 3:15 pm

      In Farahi Discourse, for historical narrations other than hadith narrations, other tools are deployed to identify whether such narrations could be credible or not, like considering the reasonableness of nature of information within holistic framework of history of that particular time. In matters of reported historical events, the content of the narration, its placement in the holistic framework of history, reason and logic etc. hold the primary position, while the chain of narrators holds the secondary position. For details, please refer to the premise of my response provided in the following thread: Discussion 85860 • Reply 85933

      As far as the chain of narration for this particular incident is concerned, all the chains are weak and none of them is strong enough so as to be categorized as Sahih in terms of its chain. As far as the content is concerned, it appears that there is strangeness in the reports as they exaggerate physical power of Hazrat Ali (rta) beyond reason and logic and different variants contradict with each other as well. This could vey well be a work of someone belonging to Shian-e-Ali as one of the narrators in one of the chains is known to go to extremes in this regard. It is quite possible that a real heroic event had been exaggerated beyond proportions by one of the narrators in the chain, thus making it impossible to accept it in its current form.

      Study of the Chains of this Narration:

      1) Narration from Abu Rafay (rta):

      First time reported by Ibn-e-Ishaq (d:151H):

      قَالَ ابْنُ إسْحَاقَ: حَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ الْحَسَنِ، عَنْ بَعْضِ أَهْلِهِ، عَنْ أَبِي رَافِعٍ، مَوْلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم، قَالَ: خَرَجْنَا مَعَ عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى عَنْهُ، حِينَ بَعَثَهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِرَايَتِهِ، فَلَمَّا دَنَا مِنْ الْحِصْنِ خَرَجَ إلَيْهِ أَهْلُهُ فَقَاتَلَهُمْ، فَضَرَبَهُ رَجُلٌ مِنْ يَهُودَ، فَطَاحَ تُرْسُهُ مِنْ يَدِهِ، فَتَنَاوَلَ عَلِيٌّ عليه السلام بَابًا كَانَ عِنْدَ الْحِصْنِ فَتَرَّسَ بِهِ عَنْ نَفْسِهِ، فَلَمْ يَزَلْ فِي يَدِهِ وَهُوَ يُقَاتِلُ حَتَّى فَتَحَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ، ثُمَّ أَلْقَاهُ مِنْ يَدِهِ حِينَ فَرَغَ، فَلَقَدْ رَأَيْتنِي فِي نَفَرٍ سَبْعَةٍ مَعِي، أَنَا ثَامِنُهُمْ، نَجْهَدُ عَلَى أَنْ نَقْلِبَ ذَلِكَ الْبَابَ، فَمَا نُقَلِّبُهُ

      Ibn-e-Ishaq said that Abdullah bin al-Hasan told me from one of his family from Abu Rafay freed slave of the apostle: We went with Ali when the apostle sent him with his flag and when he got near the fort the garrison came out and he fought them. A Jew struck him so that his shield fell from his hand, so Ali laid hold of a door by the fort and used it as a shield. He kept it in his hand as he fought until God gave victory, throwing it away when all was over. I can see myself with seven others trying to tum that door over, but we could not.”

      (Seerah Ibn-e-Hisham (d:213H), 2/335) (الناشر: شركة مكتبة ومطبعة مصطفى البابي الحلبي وأولاده بمصر)

      This narration with the same chain is also narrated in:

      (Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal (d:241H), 39/283, Number 23858) (الناشر: مؤسسة الرسالة)

      (Tarikh-e-Tabri (d:310H), 3/13) (الناشر: دار المعارف بمصر)

      (Dalail un Nabuwah by Bayhaqi (d:458H), 4/212) (الناشر: دار الكتب العلمية، دار الريان للتراث)

      (Tarikh-e-Damishq by Ibn-e-Asakar (d:571H), 42/110) (الناشر: دار الفكر للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع)

      Ibn-e-Kathir (d:774H) writes after quoting the above narration:

      ‌وَفِي ‌هَذَا ‌الْخَبَرِ ‌جَهَالَةٌ ‌وَانْقِطَاعٌ ‌ظَاهِرٌ

      There is apparent ignorance and discontinuity in this news.”

      (Seerat-un-Nabwiya, 3/359) (الناشر: عيسى البابي الحلبي، القاهرة)

      Imam Zarakshi (d:794H) has written in support of this narration and claimed that this narration is famous (mashur), He writes:

      زعم الْعلمَاء ان هَذَا الحَدِيث لَا اصل لَهُ وانما يرْوى عَن رعاع النَّاس وَلَيْسَ كَمَا قَالَ فقد اخرجه ابْن اسحاق فِي سيرته عَن ابي رَافع وان سَبْعَة لم يقلبوه

      (Al-Tazkara fil Ahadith-e-Mushtahira, Page 166) (الناشر: دار الكتب العلمية – بيروت)

      Imam Haithmi (d:807H) writes after quoting this Hadith:

      رَوَاهُ أَحْمَدُ، وَفِيهِ رَاوٍ لَمْ يُسَمَّ

      Narrated by Ahmed, and it contains an unnamed narrator.”

      (Majma Al-Zawaid, 6/152, Number 10206) (الناشر: مكتبة القدسي، القاهرة)

      Shuaib Al-Arnaut (d:2016AC) also grades this chain as weak in the footnote of Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal (reference shared above), He writes:

      إسناده ضعيف لإبهام الراوي عن أبي رافع

      It’s chain of transmission is weak due to the vagueness of the narrator narrating on the authority of Abu Rafay.”

      __

      2) Narration from Jabir bin Abdullah (rta):

      a) First Variant:

      From Ismail bin Musa Al-Saddi from Mutlib bin Zayyad from Laith bin Abi Saleem from Abi Jafar (Muhammad bin Ali) from Jabir bin Abdullah (rta).

      حَدَّثَنَا جَابِرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللهِ أَنَّ عَلِيًّا حَمَلَ الْبَابَ يَوْمَ خَيْبَرَ حَتَّى صَعِدَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ عَلَيْهِ فَافْتَتَحُوهَا وَأَنَّهُ حَرِبَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فَلَمْ يَحْمِلْهُ أَرْبَعُونَ رَجُلًا

      Jabir Bin Abdullah told us that Indeed Ali (rta) lifted the door on the day of Khaybar until the time Muslims entered the fort and conquered it, and definitely they were tested and no one could carry it but fourty men.”

      Narrated in:

      (Al-Musannaf by Ibn-e-Abi Shaybah (d:235H), 18/82, Number 34311) (الناشر: دار كنوز إشبيليا للنشر والتوزيع، الرياض – السعودية)

      (Dalail un Nabuwah by Bayhaqi (d:458H), 4/212) (الناشر: دار الكتب العلمية، دار الريان للتراث)

      (Tarikh-e-Baghdad by Khatib Baghdadi (d:463H), 13/224) (الناشر: دار الغرب الإسلامي – بيروت)

      (Tarikh-e-Damishq by Ibn-e-Asakar (d:571H), 42/111) (الناشر: دار الفكر للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع)

      Laith bin Abi Saleem is a daeef narrator by consensus of Hadith Scholars.

      (For details, see Tehzeeb Al-Tehzeeb by Hafiz Ibn-e-Hajr Asqalanai (d:852H), 11/219-225, Number 5992) (الناشر: جمعية دار البر – الإمارات العربية المتحدة، دبي)

      Another narrator Ismail bin Musa Al-Saddi is a known Shia with extreme tendencies.

      Ibn-e-Hajr (d:852H) writes:

      صدوق يخطىء رمي بالرفض

      (Taqreeb Al-Tehzeeb, Page 110, Number 492) (الناشر: دار الرشيد – سوريا)

      Ibn-e-Adi (d:365H) writes:

      وإِنَّما أَنْكَرُوا عَلَيْهِ الْغُلُوَّ فِي التَّشَيُّعِ

      (Al-Kamil Fid-Duafa Ar-Rijal, 1/528-530, Number 153) (الناشر: الكتب العلمية – بيروت-لبنان)

      Imam Dahabi (d:748H) calls this variant as Munkar (هذا منكر). He writes:

      هذا منكر، رواه جماعة عن إسماعيل

      (See: Meezan Al-Itedal, 3/113) (الناشر: دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر، بيروت – لبنان)

      Ibn-e-Kathir (d:774H) calls this variant as Daeef as well, He writes:

      وَفِيهِ ضَعْفٌ أَيْضًا

      (Seerat-un-Nabwiya, 3/359) (الناشر: عيسى البابي الحلبي، القاهرة)

      Ibn-e-Hajr (d:852H) also calls this variant as Munkar. He writes:

      هذا منكر ورواه جماعة عن إسمعيل انتهى قلت له شاهد من حديث أبي رافع رواه أحمد في مسنده لكن لم يقل أربعون رجلا

      (See: Lisan ul Meezan, 4/196) (الناشر: مؤسسة الأعلمي للمطبوعات بيروت – لبنان)

      Imam Zarakshi (d:794H) has written in support of this narration and claimed with limited evidence that the narrators of this narration are strong, He writes:

      وَأخرجه الْحَاكِم من طرق مِنْهَا عَن ابي عَليّ الْحَافِظ ثَنَا الْهَيْثَم بن خلف الدودي الْقَائِل فِيهِ ابو بكر الاسماعيلي لَا ثبات وَقَالَ احْمَد بن كَامِل كَانَ كثير الحَدِيث حَافِظًا لكتابه قَالَ ثَنَا اسماعيل ين مُوسَى السّديّ الْقَائِل فِيهِ احْمَد بن صَالح لَيْسَ بِهِ بَأْس وَقَالَ ابْن المطين وابو حَاتِم كَانَ صَدُوقًا ثَنَا الْمطلب بن زِيَاد الْقَائِل فِيهِ احْمَد وَيحيى ثِقَة ثَنَا لَيْث بن سليم وَحَدِيثه فِي مُسلم واثنى عَلَيْهِ غير وَاحِد ثَنَا ابو جَعْفَر مُحَمَّد بن عَليّ بن حُسَيْن عَن جَابر ان عليا حمل الْبَاب يَوْم خَيْبَر وانه جرب بعد ذَلِك فَلم يحلمه اربعون رجلا

      (Al-Tazkara fil Ahadith-e-Mushtahira, Page 166) (الناشر: دار الكتب العلمية – بيروت)

      b) Second Variant:

      Bayhaqi mentions another variant with incomplete chain calling it weak and writes:

      تَابَعَهُ فُضَيْلُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْوَهَّابِ عَنِ الْمُطَّلِبِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ وَرُوِيَ مِنْ وَجْهٍ آخَرَ ضَعِيفٍ عَنْ جَابِرٍ ثُمَّ اجْتَمَعَ عَلَيْهِ سَبْعُونَ رَجُلًا فَكَانَ جُهْدَهُمْ أَنْ أَعَادُوا الْبَابَ

      Fudayl bin Abdul Wahhab continued it on the authority of Al-Mutlib bin Zayyad, and it was narrated from another weak source on the authority of Jabir (rta), Then seventy men gathered against him, and it was their effort to restore the door.

      (Dalail un Nabuwah by Bayhaqi (d:458H), 4/212) (الناشر: دار الكتب العلمية، دار الريان للتراث)

      Ibn-e-Kathir (d:774H) calls this variant Daeef as well.

      (Seerat-un-Nabwiya, 3/359) (الناشر: عيسى البابي الحلبي، القاهرة)

      The complete chain is mentioned by Imam Zarakshi (d:794H) with reference from Imam Hakim (450H) but I was unable to find any such narration reported by Imam Hakim:

      From Haram bin Uthman from Abi Ateeq from Ibn-e-Jabir from Jabir (rta):

      وَمِنْهَا مَا رَوَاهُ عَن اسماعيل بن مُحَمَّد بن الْفضل ثَنَا جدي ثَنَا ابراهيم بن حَمْزَة ثَنَا عبد الْعَزِيز بن مُحَمَّد عَن حرَام بن عُثْمَان عَن ابي عَتيق وَابْن جَابر عَن جَابر ان عليا لما انْتهى الى الْحصن اجتذب اُحْدُ ابوابه فَأَلْقَاهُ

      بالارض فَاجْتمع عَلَيْهِ بعده سَبْعُونَ رجلا فَكَانَ جهدهمْ ان اعادوا الْبَاب

      On the authority of Jabir (rta) that when Ali (rta) reached the fort, he pulled down one of its doors and threw it on the ground, and after him seventy men gathered against it, and their effort was to put the door back

      (Al-Tazkara fil Ahadith-e-Mushtahira, Page 166) (الناشر: دار الكتب العلمية – بيروت)

      However, this chain is also weak on account of one narrator Haram bin Uthman who is an abandoned narrator (متروك) by consensus:

      He narrates Weak ahadith in abundance (كثير الحديث ضعيفا) according to Ibn-e-Saad (d:230H). (See: Tabqat-ul-Kubra by Ibn-e-Saad, 7/557) (الناشر: مكتبة الخانجي، القاهرة – مصر)

      Imam Bukhari (d:256H) calls him Munkir-e-Hadith (منكر الحديث) (See: Al-Tarikh al-Kabir, 3/101) (الطبعة: دائرة المعارف العثمانية، حيدر آباد – الدكن)

      Also Daeef according to Imam Malik, Imam Shafii, Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal and Abu Zaraa

      (See: Al-Jarah Wa Tadeel by Ibn-e-Abi Hatim Razi (d:327H), 3/282-283) (الناشر: طبعة مجلس دائرة المعارف العثمانية – بحيدر آباد الدكن – الهند

      دار إحياء التراث العربي – بيروت)

      Ibn-e-Hajr (d:852H) calls this chain from Harm bin Uthman as Matruk (Abandoned) (متروك). He writes:

      وفي سنده حرام بن عثمان متروك. وجاءت قصة الباب من حديث أبي رافع، لكن ذكر دون هذا العدد

      (See: Al-Isabaa, 4/466) (الناشر: دار الكتب العلمية – بيروت)

      __

      Imam Sakhawi (d:902H), after mentioning all the narrations in this regard and all their known variants, calls all of them Weak. He writes:

      بل كلُّها واهيةٌ، ولذا أنكرَهُ بعضُ العلماءِ

      All of these chains as very weak and due to this, some Scholars have rejected [the authenticity] of this incident.”

      (Al-Maqasid Al-Hasana, 1/193, Number 418) (الناشر: مكتبة الخانجي – مصر)

      There is no place where either Imam Dahabi (d:748H) or Ibn-e-Hajr (d:852H) have explicitly categorized any of the above Narrations as Sahih. At places they have mentioned all the chains of this incident but they did not comment on their authenticity. Some of those references have already been provided above and further references can be found below:

      See:(Tarikh Al-Islam by Dahabi, 2/411-412) (الناشر: دار الكتاب العربي، بيروت) AND (Fath-ul-Bari by Ibn-e-Hajr, 7/478) (الناشر: المكتبة السلفية – مصر)

  • Muhammad Sami ud-Din

    Member October 19, 2023 at 5:43 am

    So you mean, It is possible that this kind of event had occurred. But, later exaggerated. (This could be appropriate for sure)

    I tried to read the views of scholars who consider this report of incident to be weak. But, I cannot completely deny that. Because, It has been reported by two companions of Prophet (sav), and the report of both is different from each-other.

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