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  • Meaning Of مؤثر بالذات / Maussar Bizzat

    Posted by Samama Fahim on August 21, 2023 at 3:24 pm

    What is meant by “maussar bizzat”? Following is the exegesis of verse 4 of Surah al-Falaq by Amin Ahsan Islahi:

    لیکن اس کے اندر اگر کچھ حقیقت ہے بھی تو قرآن میں یہ تصریح ہے کہ یہ مؤثر بالذات نہیں ہیں بلکہ ان سے کسی کو ضرر پہنچایا جا سکتا ہے تو اللہ تعالیٰ کے اذن ہی سے پہنچایا جا سکتا ہے۔

    Is a sword “maussar bizzat” when it strikes?

    Umer replied 8 months, 1 week ago 3 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • Meaning Of مؤثر بالذات / Maussar Bizzat

    Umer updated 8 months, 1 week ago 3 Members · 8 Replies
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 21, 2023 at 10:30 pm

    It means autonomous i.e. ability to act on its own.

    • Samama Fahim

      Member August 22, 2023 at 1:40 pm

      Is there anything maussar bizzat in this world?

    • Umer

      Moderator August 23, 2023 at 2:55 am

      Depending on the perspective, the answer can be both Yes and No.

      God’s permission (Izan) refers to the fact that this world has been instituted on laws of nature and have God’s permission to work as such and this entails every working of this universe. Most of the time, such laws are not intervened with, but at times, considering the overall scheme of God and his wisdom, he does intervene in the workings of these laws. We have no basis to know that which intervention was because of God’s direct act and which interventions are because of natural happening of events. In the Quran, we find certain acts being attributed to God; however, the real objective in this regard is not the attribution of these acts, it is their attribution to certain laws and principles on the basis of which these acts materialize. Because these laws and principles have been set by the Almighty, He has attributed the acts which emanate on the basis of these laws and principles to Himself at certain places in the Quran.

      For discussions on Izan of Allah, please refer to the following threads:

      Discussion 84579

      Discussion 68354

      __

      For short comments, please also refer to the video below from 18:38 to 20:16

    • Samama Fahim

      Member August 23, 2023 at 1:24 pm

      In the case of the following tafseer:

      لیکن اس کے اندر اگر کچھ حقیقت ہے بھی تو قرآن میں یہ تصریح ہے کہ یہ مؤثر بالذات نہیں ہیں بلکہ ان سے کسی کو ضرر پہنچایا جا سکتا ہے تو اللہ تعالیٰ کے اذن ہی سے پہنچایا جا سکتا ہے۔

      Does maussar-bizzat entail direct intervention of Allah?

    • Umer

      Moderator August 25, 2023 at 1:19 am

      In reality, every thing and every working of this universe is subject to Izan of Allah. Their autonomy, irrespective of its extent, is because of that Izan. Certain happenings which can be broken down into their cause and effect on a scientific level, their results can be attributed to those things, but happenings which cannot be broken down as such, their results will always be attributed to Izan of Allah because failure to do so will leave the room open for speculation and superstitions when there lies no scientific basis for them and these superstions often lead to polytheism. That is why the matters of Magic or Nafsi ulum and their results are always referred back to the Izan of Allah.

      As far as direct intervention of Allah is concerned, it can happen anytime and anywhere, whether it be a mussar-bizzat thing or not, however we have no way of knowing for sure whether such an intervention has taken place or not.

    • Samama Fahim

      Member August 25, 2023 at 3:13 pm

      Why is it a nafsi ilm when it does not entail cause and effect? I think the cause-and-effect in magic and nafsi uloom are unknown, not that there aren’t any.

      Moreover, if Allah makes the spells of a magician effective directly without any cause-and-effect principle, then it is tantamount to Allah creating evil.

  • Samama Fahim

    Member August 25, 2023 at 4:11 pm

    EDIT: Why is it a nafsi ilm when it does not entail cause and effect? I think the cause-and-effect in magic and nafsi uloom are unknown, not that there aren’t any.

    Moreover, if Allah makes the spells of a magician effective directly without any cause-and-effect principle, then it is tantamount to Allah creating evil.

    • Umer

      Moderator August 25, 2023 at 11:51 pm

      That is correct, I was saying the same thing as pointed out by you. My apologies if I failed to clearly present this point.

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