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  • Why God And Not Natural Cause Or Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Posted by Ali on September 19, 2023 at 8:28 am


    Who created God?

    Ghamidi Sahab said, We only look for creator of things which we can see,feel observe etc.

    We haven’t not seen,feel, observe etc, the creator, so its incoherent to ask this Question for now.


    Everything in this universe is cause and effect.

    There must be cause of this Universe.

    Why this cause has to be God and not any natural cause because we can’t not see,feel, observe both of them.

    In an argument of Creator, Ghamidi Sahab Reasoning make sense but if we apply the same to argument of Cause and Effect, a question arise which is:

    Why this cause has to be God and not an Natural cause or Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Umer replied 4 days, 6 hours ago 3 Members · 3 Replies
  • 3 Replies
  • Why God And Not Natural Cause Or Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Umer updated 4 days, 6 hours ago 3 Members · 3 Replies
  • Hasan

    Member September 19, 2023 at 9:51 am

    “natural” and “flying spaghetti” are themselves creation. I am not convinced that something we could observe/imagine would be the original Creator of everything, including this (observable) universe, living organisms, biological systems, consciousness, aesthetic nature of this world that couldn’t have formed solely by survival method of evolution, etc. It has to be something outside of this Universe to have the capability to create this Universe.

    The truth is, we are giving a very limited knowledge and scope to which we see / can imagine things. God created all this as a test for us. It’s like a simulation where we are the characters. Certainly we have been given the task, what we need to know, what to do and what not to do. When this test is over, we’ll surely see the ultimate reality, and the results on how we performed in this temporal test.

    Back to your question, how do we know it’s God? (Allah?) .. it’s because if someone did create us, it’s surely for a reason. And definitely we must be given some instructions. We just need to find those instructions. Look around you, there aren’t many religions. It’s a known fact that only one religion that has the instructions preserved and free from contradiction. Only ONE! (i.e. Quran). Surely the One who wanted us to follow instructions, pass a test, would have preserved those instructions.

    Quran is how we know for sure, that it is not a flying spaghetti monster, nor a natural cause (because natural cause would require nature to exist). It is indeed He, who has sent this Book. It is surely One God, and certainly we will be returned to Him.

    اَمْ خُلِقُوْا مِنْ غَيْرِ شَيْءٍ اَمْ هُمُ الْخٰلِقُوْنَ 

    “Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]?”

    (Quran – 52:35)

  • Ali

    Member September 19, 2023 at 11:20 am

    Thank you for such detailed explanation.

    In an argument of Creator acreation. Everything is clear.

    Thanks again for explaining it further.

    But, I was specifically talking about looking at things as cause and effect.

    Universe is an effect. There must be cause.

    I know that Ultimately, the only answer is an uncaused cause which is Allah.

    Like even if the cause of the universe is another natural cause, and cause of that natural cause, it can’t go like this infinitely. It has to end with Allah to make sense.

    But as Ghamidi Sahab said in an argument of creator that When we will figured out the creator, we will look for creator of creator. For now it is incoherent to ask this question.

    So I am saying then Why we have to go that far back that leads us to Allah when we we haven’t not figured the cause whose effect is universe.

    Why this cause whose effect is universe has to be God not any Natural Cause?

    What I am trying to say is in context of Ghamidi Shahib statement.

  • Umer

    Moderator September 27, 2023 at 10:50 am

    Please refer to the videos of Ghamidi Sahab (three parts) posted in the following thread under the Heading “Summary of the arguments” where Ghamidi Sahab has discussed this topic:

    Discussion 81000 • Reply 81077

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