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  • Who Built Kaaba?

    Posted by Saddamhusen Saiyed on February 20, 2024 at 5:07 am

    As a Muslim I know that Kaaba was built by Ibrahim as and Ismail as. But are there sources other than quran which suggests so?

    And whether Jews and Christian believe that Kaaba was built by Ibrahim and Ismail as??

    And whether we find anything from the texts of mushrikeen of Mecca about origin of Kaaba..?

    I have heard ghamidi sahib saying that mushrikeen were originally follower of Deen e Ibrahim. So there must be references to Ibrahim a.s in kalam e arab.

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad replied 2 months, 1 week ago 4 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • Who Built Kaaba?

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad updated 2 months, 1 week ago 4 Members · 12 Replies
  • Umer

    Moderator February 21, 2024 at 12:40 am

    All the available content on this topic can be found in the following thread along with all the sub-threads shared afterward:

    Discussion 85150

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 21, 2024 at 1:02 am

    It is an established fact that Kaaba was built by Ibrahim and Ismail. This historical knowledge is passed on from generation to generation. The Historical narrations record that the Kaaba was venerated and rituals of Hajj were performed before the prophet. However, Jews and Christians do not recognize it.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 21, 2024 at 1:19 am

    Dr Jawad Ali, in his great work on the history of Arabs, has recorded all the information about Kaabah and its mention in the formal literature.

    See for details

    المفصل فی تاریخ العرب قبل الاسلام

    Vol 2, chapter 74: Kaabah

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 21, 2024 at 1:25 am

    «المفصل فى تاريخ العرب قبل الإسلام» (12/ 6):

    «فأقسمت بالبيت الذي طاف حوله … رجال بنوه من قريش وجرهم

    ديوان زهير “15”، الثعالبي، ثمار القلوب “16”.

    ………………………..

    فلا ورب الذي قد زرته حججا … وما هريق على الأنصاب من جسد

    “فلا لعمر الذي مسحت كعبته” في رواية أخرى، ديوانه “25”، الثعالبي، ثمار “17”.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 21, 2024 at 1:26 am

    Some Pre Islamic poets mention it

    «المفصل فى تاريخ العرب قبل الإسلام» (12/ 6):

    «فأقسمت بالبيت الذي طاف حوله … رجال بنوه من قريش وجرهم

    ديوان زهير “15”، الثعالبي، ثمار القلوب “16”.

    ………………………..

    فلا ورب الذي قد زرته حججا … وما هريق على الأنصاب من جسد

    “فلا لعمر الذي مسحت كعبته” في رواية أخرى، ديوانه “25”، الثعالبي، ثمار “17”.

  • Saddamhusen Saiyed

    Member February 22, 2024 at 8:31 am

    thank you sir for your reply. However, what i understood is that you are mentioning references of kaba in preislamic arabs but my question is whether it was known to them that it was built by Ibrahim. If it was transmitted as a knowledge from generations to generations there must be somewhere mention of Ibrahim in their literature also. Further, in bible is there any mention of ibrahim building kaaba in mecca?. Further, as ghamidi sahab says namaz,roza,etc were there before Muhammad sws. whether hajj was also there? If yes then musa, isa also should have performed hajj. Are there any mention of it?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 22, 2024 at 10:44 pm

    There is no mention of Kaaba or the builder of kaabah in the present Bible. However, it was a well-known fact among Arabs that Ibrahim and his son Ismail built kaaba. The Quran itself is a source of history and mentions these facts as pre-Islamic knowledge of his audience. Hajj was there too before Islam. However, there is no record found to establish that previous prophets visited Kaaba.

  • Saddamhusen Saiyed

    Member February 23, 2024 at 9:32 pm

    Thanks again sir, so one thing is clear that in present Bible there is no mention of Kaaba.(however I came across one book from almawrid “the only son offered for sacrifice” that claims that there were mentions of hajj also but have been omitted from present Bible will read this one to understand the issue)

    But my other question is still there, whether in pre-islamic arab text Ibrahim and Ismael are mentioned? How do we know that they knew about Ibrahim and Ismail (outside quran)..?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 25, 2024 at 11:48 pm

    They were known as Ishmaelites like Israelites were called after the name of their forefather Issac, whose title was Israel This lineage is taken pride in by the Arabs. These are known facts. The citation of these facts in some documents adds no value to the authenticity of these facts.

    The history of Arabs was recorded after Islam since there was no tradition of writing and recording history. In the history of Tabri, which is the first complete book on history available, all the information you can find on this topic. other books on this topic are

    The History of Arabs by Philip K Hitti

    ارض القرآن، by Sulamin Nadwi,

    المفصل فی تاریخ العرب قبل الاسلام by Jawad Ali

  • Saddamhusen Saiyed

    Member February 26, 2024 at 10:31 pm

    Understood. Thank you sir

  • Hassan Izhar

    Member February 27, 2024 at 5:34 pm

    “As a Muslim I know that Kaaba was built by Ibrahim as and Ismail as. But are there sources other than quran which suggests so?”


    The historicity of Kaaba and present-day Makkah, outside of Islamic historical tradition (outside of Quran), is marred by alot of skepticism and doubts by academia and historians. They argue that what is considered “established history” by Muslims is not really that established, if it is put to test of independent verification. Academics have raised questions about the authenticity of present-day Makkah as the birth place of Prophet Muhammad, as the starting point of his mission, and as the original holy city of Islam, all of which have been challenged to different degrees by academics and historians since the late 1970s. This stream of academic work is generally referred to as “revisionist school of thought” or reconstruction of early islamic history. Needless to say, it is highly scorned by Muslims.

    The revisionist literature, however, does not draw any single or unified conclusions but challenges the traditional islamic narratives regarding the origins of Islam. Criticism is generally directed towards islamic historical narrative such as early Muslims’ relationship with Jews and Christians, wars with Byzantine, Muslims’ perception of their faith, and issues of geography such as the genuineness of present-day Kaaba, and Makkah, and not usually towards Quran.

    Among the most influential classic western work is “Meccan Trade and the rise of early Islam”, by Patricia Crone (a .pdf is online). This book builds upon the work of earlier historians from 60s and 70s and argue that Makkah was neither an influential city nor a trade hub of any kind as claimed by islamic history. It was a barren place in the middle of nowhere, having no religious significance, and not mentioned in any pre-islamic maps, or historical accounts. It gained its present status as a holy city only towards the end of 7th century or the beginning of 8th century. The book argues, on the basis of contemporary independent non-Arabic historical accounts, that there are zero mentions before Islam of Makkah (or Quraysh for example). No Greek Byzantine text mentions Mecca (or Quraysh) despite the later Islamic tradition that they traded with Byzantine cities like Damascus (and that Abu Sufyan even visited Heraclius).

    Patricia Crone’s work triggered further research into the historicity of early Islam and various books have been written on the set of topics with varying findings. For instance, recently “Stephen J. Shoemaker” has authored a book titled “The Death of a Prophet”, (available online), which basis his arguments on fazail ul quds literature, early islamic sources, and independent non-Arabic contemporary accounts (Byzantine, Armenian, Christian, Jewish etc) and concludes that Muslims, during the first 50-60 years of Islam venerated Jerusalem, and not Makkah, as the holy city of Islam, and the site of Holy Sanctuary (Masjid Al Haram) was located at Temple Mount, Jerusalem, at the Foundation Rock, where Muslims gathered for prayer and sacrifice uptil the time of Abdul Malik Bin Marwan, the Ummayad Caliph. It was only around 690, when Abdullah Bin Zubair was ruling Makkah that the focus of Muslims gradually started to shift from Jerusalem to Makkah during intense civil wars.

    Another important and influential work in revisionist literature is “Seeing Islam as Others Saw It: A Survey and Evaluation of Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian Writings on Early Islam”, by “Robert G. Hoyland”. (available online)

    Almost all revisionists use a “source-critical” approach to traditional islamic literature of sirah and hadith, as well as study relevant archaeology, numismatics and contemporary non-Arabic literature. They believe these methodologies provide “hard facts” and an ability to crosscheck, whereas traditional Islamic accounts—written 150 to 250 years after the Holy Prophet – are/were subject to biases and embellishments by the authors and transmitters. For instance, the first written history of Islam by Ibne Hisham, based upon work of Ibne Ishaq (which was lost), admits that he has tampered with the actual historical accounts and have changed them because of the concern of certain quarters, who may not like the actual accounts. There is a near unanimous conclusion in all revisionist literature that Islam did not originate from present-day Makkah but somewhere in North West Arabia (present day NW Saudi Arabia, Southern Jordan, or Eastern Palestine).

    In addition to the above school of thought, some studies conducted by Muslims, of geographical pointers contained in the Quran, have also reached similar conclusions. For instance, “The Natural Republic: Reclaiming Islam from Within”, by “The Monotheist Group”, Brainbow Press, (available online) written by a Saudi author, Layth Shaban, cross-compares the traditional islamic history with Quran and concludes that Jerusalem is more accurate as the holy city that houses Masjid Al Haram, instead of Makkah, giving various arguments :

    – The recipients of the Torah and Injeel (Jews and Nazarenes) acknowledge the significance of Jerusalem but deny any knowledge of Mecca.

    – The name “Bakk’a” is found in the Jewish bible (see Psalms 84) as people are on their way to Jerusalem (to stand before God at Mt. Zion).

    – The location of Prophet Mohammed (Mecca) was in the same place as the town of Lot (see Qur’an 37:133-138)—a location distinct from the place of Abraham and the Pilgrimage.

    – Controversy and doubt over Mecca has existed since the early days of Islam whereby the Kaab’a in Mecca was catapulted by an

    Islamic army in the days of Abdul Malik Bin Marwan while the Sanctuary in Jerusalem was honored and upgraded.

    – Physical evidence exists showing mosques built after the death of the prophet with their Qiblas (orientation) towards Jerusalem and not Mecca (see work by Cook and Crone).

    – The name “Bakk’a” is still found in city maps of Jerusalem as the name of a valley located not far from the Temple Mount to the southwest.

    – The name “Jerusalem” (city of peace) fits the prayer of Abraham for Bakk’a to be a city of peace (see Qur’an 2:126).

    – The Scripture speaks of olives and figs growing in the vicinity of the ‘city of peace’ (see Qur’an 95:1-3). Olives and figs are natural to the area of the Mediterranean (near which Jerusalem is situated) but not to the harsh climate of Arabia.

    – The Qur’an tells us that the ‘Maqam Ibrahim’ (situation/station of Abraham) is located within the Sanctuary (see Qur’an 3:97) and not outside as in the case of the Kaab’a.


    To answer your question, whether there are independent sources other than Islamic accounts that could confirm that the Sanctuary built by Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet Ismail (as stated in Quran) is the one that we call Kaaba in Makkah, the answer is in negative. There are no independent pre-islamic sources. All sources date post late 7th/early 8th century AD.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 28, 2024 at 11:30 pm

    History is always of communities. A living tradition of knowledge, that which is unanimous, not mythical or fantastical, is accepted as the established history. The existence of Socrates and what happened to him are established history, confirmed by the unanimous witness of the community of a small town. The whole communities of Arabs passed on their knowledge of history to their generations until they were recorded in the books.

    Contemporary evidence can be presented only to confirm a fact, not to nullify a fact. The same is the case with archeological evidence.

    These are some of the basics to read and investigate history which is unfortunately ignored by modern scholarship and they are coming up with absurd conclusions.

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