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  • Actively Seeking Secondary Benefits For Acts Exclusively For Allah

    Posted by Mohammad Ali Soomro on March 3, 2024 at 11:25 pm

    Hello there Assallam u alaikum

    my question is that it is often said that action of worship rituals are exclusively for Allah. or like if someone accepts Islam and becomes Muslim this thing is exclusively for Allah alone. And it is said that no other aim should be tried to achieve from those things which are exclusively Allah’s right (ie worship)

    ie becoming Muslim is exclusively for Allah. but after a person becomes Muslim for Allah primarily. if there’s a job for suppose which is has a requirement that the applicant should be Muslim only. they only hire Muslims. so if he goes there and tells them that “I am a Muslim , I fulfill your requirement of job of being a Muslim, please hire me” now here something that was exclusively for Allah (only Allah’s pleasure is to be sought by this thing), he actively made it a means to seek that worldly benefit of job (money stream). Or if the requirement was that a person should be a Hajji or Regular Namazı.

    Then often scholars say that if a thing which is exclusively for Allah like worship ritual. a person can have a secondary aim of something else from it too and can actively try to seek other worldly benefit from people for it and this is allowable (like the case of the man above).

    my question is that if that secondary worldly aim from worship is deliberately and actively sought then doesn’t it contradicts with the statement “Exclusively for Allah”? Or “Purely for Allah” Or the notions of something being ‘Khalisan Allah ke liye’. where a person makes it a means of other worldly benefits.

    Abu Umamah reported: A man came to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and he said, “If a man battles for the sake of reward and fame, what do you think he has?” The Prophet said, “He has nothing.” The man repeated his question three times, and the Prophet said, “He has nothing.” Then, the Prophet said, “Verily, Allah does not accept any good deeds unless they are done sincerely and in pursuit of His countenance.”

    Source: Sunan al-Nasā’ī 3140

    PS. I am not talking about someone who didn’t try to seek any worldly benefit from people for such acts. but those benefits came by themselves without any intention for them. like a person prays namaz and someone else noticed it and praised him or gifted him something for it without the namazı asking for it or intending it or seeking it. I am not talking about such cases

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad replied 1 week, 1 day ago 2 Members · 35 Replies
  • 35 Replies
  • Actively Seeking Secondary Benefits For Acts Exclusively For Allah

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad updated 1 week, 1 day ago 2 Members · 35 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 4, 2024 at 4:43 am

    If someone becomes Muslim to get some worldly benefit, this is wrong. but a Muslim is already a Muslim and now he get an advantage of it, this is fine.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 4, 2024 at 4:59 am

      @Irfan76 sir I understand but after being Muslim for Allah, using the notion of his being Muslim to receive and get worldly benefit. doesn’t it contradict the understanding of “exclusively for Allah alone”. in a sense that someone goes to a company himself and says that I’m a Muslim so hire me please

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 5, 2024 at 2:09 am

    This is different from worship ritual in the sense, that it is used for identification too. So when there is a need for the indentification, it is used. For example, in the Quran God said while declaring the final command of annihilation of Mushrikeen, that if they say prayer and pay zakat spare them.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 5, 2024 at 2:37 am

      @Irfan76 sir then what would be the example of getting a secondary benefit from a thing only for Allah which would be objectionable?

      sir in that times we can say that it was maybe an indirect command of Allah, that in order for being saved from His punishment. you have to show your prayer and other things. an indirect command of Allah,like this. but here he was not commanded to opt for that job. but he still went for it by showing them that I am a Muslim and give me this Job. I fulfill this particular requirement. can you explain me these please ?

      and also can you give an example where actively seeking a secondary benefit would be objectionable? in the context of Riyakari

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 5, 2024 at 4:23 am

    In another verse God tells the ones who pray and give Zakat are only eligible to be a Muslim citizen and get the benefit of Muslims in a a Muslim government. See the verse 9: 11

    فَإِن تَابُوا وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ فَإِخْوَانُكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ ۗ وَنُفَصِّلُ الْآيَاتِ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْلَمُونَ ‎

    So, if a certain act is made a thing of benefit for something else, it is ok to get that benefit. You did not initiate the act to get that benefit. But now it is offered you can avail it.

    It is the same, as cited frequently previously, that it is allowed to to trade on the occasion of Hajj. Hajj is not initiated for trade but the benefit as a side benefit can be availed. This is how God treats.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 5, 2024 at 1:10 pm

      @Irfan76 sir then in such case wouldn’t a person need a proper list of things which can be used for acquiring worldly benefit in a secondary fashion and also for what benefits that thing can be used? why religion hasnt given us mentions of those particular things in which it is allowed, and also in which which circumstances is it allowed?

      like above one, to get treated like a Muslim citizen by the government which means to get their lives spared and get the same rights as them. this secondary benefit can be actively sought by using their “being Muslim” notion. Now we can say that in such circumstances like this one Allah allowed. how can we extend this “being Muslim” notion, to achieve secondary benefits like a job or something like this (other than the benefits which are allowed in ayah)?

      I mean if a person were to be using his being Muslim to get equal rights in a state as a Muslim, he can use this ayah as an evidence to say that Allah has allowed such benefit to taken. But a person seeking a job because of him being a Muslim, the above setting doesn’t match his circumstances, by what principle will he extend the permissibility?

      And Secondly, the second question comes what are the things that can be used in secondary benefits achievement and what are the things that cannot be used? if the job requirement was that a person needs to be a Hajji or a Namazı? is it permissible for an already hajji or namazı person, to seek this job in such way?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 6, 2024 at 5:24 am

    Applications are numerous. God teaches us principles. We have to apply them. This is an academic activity. God wants us to use our minds.

    The benefits of being Muslim were also there when it was asked to marry a Muslim instead of a polytheist. Therefore it is obvious that such benefits are not forbidden. Keep the example of Hajj and Jihad and their worldly benefits in mind while pondering such matters.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member March 6, 2024 at 6:21 am

    @Irfan76 sir and if there’s a job advertisement which says a person applying should be namazı, would it be okay to apply in it? for someone who’s already a Namazı?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 7, 2024 at 4:42 am

    Yes. The same principle applies which makes share in the spoils of war and trade in Hajj halal.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 7, 2024 at 7:57 am

      @Irfan76 Sir is there any example of something that is only for Allah, in a sense that trying to seek even a Secondary worldly benefit from people for it, would also be prohibited/Riya/shirkiya behavior?

      PS. in all examples where I’m saying “actively seeking” I mean. a person himself going and telling someone I did this or I do such, so that it would cause the benefit to come out from people.

      I am not talking about someone who never exposed his deed but it automatically surfaced and a benefit reached him automatically.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 8, 2024 at 10:26 pm

    In that case, it is not good. But if there is already a benefit prescribed for a certain quality like being a Muslim, for a job, and he applies for it, it is ok according to the principle told.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 9, 2024 at 5:07 am

      @Irfan76 sir I meant to ask something else, I wanted ask that is there any category of actions in Islam that upon which seeking even a secondary benefit on it in such way would be Haram?

      in a sense that if someone announces that “whoever has done such and such acts. He’ll be given such benefits from us”. Now Ahmad has already done that act for Allah before even knowing of this announcement. now even then Ahmad is still not allowed to go and tell his act to get that secondary benefit… my question is that, in Islam, is there any category of acts that are exceptions to the principle we previously talked about above? upon which seeking even a secondary benefit like this would be Haram?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 9, 2024 at 10:24 pm

    There is no such things in Deen.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 10, 2024 at 12:38 am

      @Irfan76 so sir can we say

      all things which are said that are “Exclusively for Allah” doesn’t mean that they cannot be made means for some other worldly benefit from people.

      As long as primary intention of pleasing Allah was present. seeking secondary benefit is okay, from people over it is okay.

      Is this thing as a principle Okay?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 11, 2024 at 5:18 am

    yes

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member March 22, 2024 at 4:35 am

    @Irfan76 Sir there’s a thing I want to ask. as we discussed that if a person does some worship primarily with intention of Allah. then later if uses this ibadah to produce a secondary worldly effect/benefit then it’s still acceptable. like a person being invited by his friend for a meal while fasting on that day. he didn’t go there and now his friend is angry with him with a complain of “why didn’t you come to my home for meal?”. and he replies to his friend ” because I was fasting” here the intention of that person was to tell his friend that he didn’t eat because of fasting so that his friend can know the valid reason and stop being angry. their friendship is a good source of many worldly benefits, so he does value this friendship. so here in order to calm his friend’s anger for not coming, he used the notion of his own fasting. as you said that such secondary benefit i.e calming anger of friend (and that too doing because of worldly reason as this friendship is source of worldly benefits, not for Allah’s pleasure), such benefits are allowed to sought in such way.
    now the question is that if a person does an act primarily for other reason then it’s shirkiya behavior. but if he does it primarily for Allah but then later uses it to achieve a secondary aim of worldly effect, then you said it’s still okay. but many scholars differentiate between secondary worldly effect like above and secondary benefit in term of if someone shows off with it.
    in a secondary aim, they allow other worldly benefit/effect like above example. but if the secondary aim was show off, so that other person thinks high of worshipper, then they dis allow it. why do they do as such?
    if the answer is that it’s Riyakari in showing off, then the question arises that why is it not riyakari when some others benefit is sought (for example job with requirements of being namazı).

    on the other hand, if the reason is that showing off (even if it’s totally in a worldly matter like height and looks) in general brings bad feelings and gives a shade of superiority complex for the person doing show off. then it’s understandable.

    can you confirm me sir why do they allow benefits like above example but not show off, even if as a secondary measure?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 22, 2024 at 11:21 pm

    Showing off is something else and to fulfill a criteria is an other thing. Showing off entalis a negative idea that one may consider him pious while a religious trait to fulfill a criteria is not showing off. It is just to get a benefit he would attain otherwise too.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 23, 2024 at 1:53 am

      @Irfan76 sir will a secondary aim showing off like this where someone considers him pious. will it be shirkiya behavior? as this was not a primary aim but a later secondary aim measure for example someone who tells someone else about the Hajj he made back in 2015, with intention of showing off. will we categorize it in generally inappropriate? or it would be Shirkiya behavior?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 24, 2024 at 6:39 am

    It is showing off a kind of shirk but not the actual Shrik therefore it has another name, riya.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member March 25, 2024 at 3:49 am

    @Irfan76 sir there’s a confusion that comes in mind regarding the root.

    Understanding 1 – since worship is only for Allah. then it means it is only to be used as a medium for Allah’s pleasure, nothing else can be sought for it. because if anything else is sought out of it (even as a secondary aim/measure ie a person seeking a source of income, goes and tells a company that “I fulfill the criteria of being namazı/Muslim for your requirement so please hire me”). anything else sought even as a secondary benefit and aim out of ibadah will contradict the notion of “Exclusively for Allah” that’s why it would be Haram/shirkiya. so if a person prays namaz for Allah, if later he uses this notion himself for any other worldly benefit like money, job or showing off (so people think high religious of him) all these things are shirkiya behavior, because they contradict “exclusively for Allah” notion

    Understanding 2 – But then you told later that “Exclusively for Allah” only means that the primary aim and motive for worship should be Allah always. but seeking secondary benefits from people over that ibadah, does not contradict this notion of exclusivity. and shirkiya behavior of Riya only occurs when the primary aim of worship is something other Allah i.e a person praying namaz only for show off or only for money primarily. And you further explained that if someone is primarily already doing it for Allah, then asking a secondary benefit from people over it is fine.

    so according to 2nd understanding what made a thing fall into similar shirkiya behavior category as Riya, was the “contradiction with the notion of ‘Exclusively for Allah’ “. and this thing does not occur in seeking secondary worldly benefits.

    so my question was that why any other secondary benefit for ibadah is acceptable but a secondary benefit in terms of showing off is said to be unacceptable/shirkiya? if the principle that made anything shirkiya was it’s contradiction with exclusivity, then in secondary benefit if this principle doesn’t apply then why do we call show off as a secondary measure, Riya ?

    an example of a person who already prays namaz, came to know of that job. went to that company and told about his skills and also that he fulfils requirement of being namazi, here we say it’s okay.

    an example of a person who already prays namaz, one day while sitting with his friend brought up his action of praying namaz so that his friend has a good notion of his religiosity in his mind. but we say this is Riya/Shirkiya?

    even though both are secondary measure here. can you please clear this confusion sir?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 26, 2024 at 12:53 am

    If one’s sensibility doesn’t allow him to take a benefit of being namazi, he should avoid it.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 26, 2024 at 2:03 am

      @Irfan76 sir I am not asking about sensitivity, I’m just asking about the logic and intellect that the base for the principle

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 26, 2024 at 11:26 pm

    This has been told earlier. if you can remember or find the answer.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member March 27, 2024 at 3:48 am

      @Irfan76 I guess sir it was a general answer of a principle, that if a worship is primarily done for Allah, then making it a means for a secondary aim for benefit, is fine. like the example of a Man already a Namazı or a Muslim. gets to know that a company wants to hire Muslim, or a Namazı. so he goes there and tells that ” I fulfill your requirement of being namazı/Muslim, please hire me”. You said if he is already a Namazı/Muslim with primary aim for Allah, then seeking such secondary things through it, is permissible.

      I just replaced the secondary benefit of “getting the job” by “showing off”, in this same principle mentioned. But here scholars say this is Shirkiya. i just wanted to understand that how to understand this?

      because in terms of principle, the important point that i understood is the matter of primary aim, that if it’s Allah then it’s okay. if it’s something else then it’s shirkiya. but we see that in example of secondarily “showing off”. this principle doesn’t apply simply like this.

      i just want to understand what makes this second example of show off Haram? what is the missing piece that I have missed?

      can you please clarify me?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar March 29, 2024 at 1:12 am

    It is not showing off. Showing off has a negative connotation. Applying for a job by the required qualification is not unethical or immoral or forbidden in Islam.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member April 1, 2024 at 3:36 am

    @Irfan76 sir I just wanted to ask a thing, here is an example.

    Ahmad does some worship, while doing worship his only aim was Allah. the worship finished. whenever he feels sad, he often tries to make himself happy by reminding himself deliberately of the ibadah he had already performed. it’s not the case that automatic thought of his worship pops into his mind and he automatically feels happiness. here he deliberately tries to think about his worship to make himself feel happy and fight this feeling of sadness, by making himself think like “remember you did such and such ibadah? Allah will give you rewards for it and protect you from hell because of it”, this makes him feel a sense of joy. here he is trying to get his own pleasure from his own worship.

    secondly, if instead of making himself happy like this, if later he mentions about his worship to another friend. so that his friend also feels joy, that some good rewards will come to Ahmad because of it. just in same sense whenever we get to know that some benefit will happen to someone we love, we feel a sense of joy.

    as Ahmad’s worship is only Allah’s right. is it okay if he uses the notion of his worship to make himself feel happy by thinking about it?

    or making his friend happy by mentioning it and putting the notion of his own worship in his friend’s mind?

    are the both permissible?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 1, 2024 at 3:46 am

    Do you find anything unethical here?

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member April 1, 2024 at 4:40 am

      @Irfan76 sir in both case, if making use of one’s own ibadah to produce some worldly result, is halal, like my own happiness, or friends happiness for worldly reason, if this thing is halal

      then other than this there’s no question of unethical thing anymore. no humans right is being violated.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 4, 2024 at 1:26 am

    Right

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member April 6, 2024 at 3:02 am

    @Irfan76 sir coming back to our discussion about why seeking other secondary benefits from ibadah already done for Allah only is halal,

    but even if that İbadah is solely done for Allah already. making a show off of it later at a time, is not halal.

    sir as you said above in a reply that for suppose if a person had sincerely done an İbadah only for Allah as his aim. later at a time thinks to make a show off of it, you said it is Haram as “showing off has a negative connotation”.

    sir my question if someone for example shows off his care for cats to a person who is attached to cats, to win his heart. he makes a show off of his love for cats, will it be something negative?

    I’m just asking like this to understand the foundation. like lying is unethical universally, it can have grades. but if a lie is related to Allah, then it becomes a very huge crime. so is it the same case with showing off? that it is unethical, but when it is related to Allah, we say it is Shirkiya? is it something like this?

    maybe that’s why if someone has already done an İbadah for Allah. he can use his doing of İbadah to gain benefits from people, like job or something else etc. but he cannot use it to deceive or harm others because it’s unethical, similarly he cannot show off of it…


  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 6, 2024 at 4:56 am

    What is the purpose of winning his heart? The purpose will define.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member April 6, 2024 at 5:16 am

      @Irfan76 so that he thinks better/higher of him, values him, feels a little impressed, and develops an attachment just like a human develops an attachment to someone or something of value.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 6, 2024 at 5:22 am

    Is it negative or positive? I hope you got your answer.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member April 6, 2024 at 5:26 am

      @Irfan76 sir if this man showing off his love for cats, to impress his friend and develop an attachment with him, i can conclude this is positive (right sir?)

      now second question comes, will the man having same aim like this but instead of showing his love for cats, he shows his İbadah, or relation with Allah. for the same purpose of friendship. will it be okay too?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 6, 2024 at 10:44 pm

    Again the purpose and intention of this act will decide.

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