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Washing In A Natural Way During Wudu And Ghusl
Asalamualaikum,
Based on my discussions on this forum, I understand that washing should be done in a natural manner, which makes a lot of sense to me. However, I want to clarify if I can extend this to all aspects of washing?
For example, I’ve seen some religious personalities make a point that wudu should be done in order and that any particular action of wudu can be done up to a maximum of three times and not more. So, if I’ve finished all the aspects of wudu and am now washing my feet, if I feel a drop of water on my lips and decide to suck that drop in and spit it out, this clearly falls under you explanation of doing things in a natural way (at least according to my nature), correct? I mean to say, this wouldn’t fall under me rinsing my mouth at the wrong time or more than three times (if I have already done that)? Likewise for any other time where I might tend to a portion of my body during wudu when it isn’t the turn to do so, or when I have already done so a maximum of three times?
Basically my question is that this point about doing things in a natural way, that applies at any points where there might be grey area? And I’m not obligated to follow what any scholar says?
The other thing is that although washing naturally makes the most sense to me logically speaking, I’m just very confused when I read online fatwas, if I can give some examples. For instance, I believe I saw a list of makruh actions during wudu, one of which was to close the eyes while pouring water over and washing the face. Personally, I don’t find having water reach the eyes to be necessary for one to wash their face under normal circumstances. Similarly, I saw elsewhere that somebody wrote washing the face is not considered complete if the area between the sideburns and ears is not covered. Especially in the case of ghusl, I’ve seen people emphasize that water should reach into the body, such as the ear canal, inside the belly button, between the buttocks (i.e., cleft) . . . all of which are places that I wouldn’t instinctively focus on washing or having water reach during a normal shower. The people writing these points present such categorical and firm rulings on these matters, which is why I start to wonder if what they’re saying is on the basis of what is found in the Quran and Sunnah – but this isn’t the case, right? If not, then is there any reason why some religious figures give rulings on such nitty gritty matters and how exactly does Ghamidi Sahab differ from these scholars in his approach on these matters if you can please clarify?
JazakAllah
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23 Replies
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Washing In A Natural Way During Wudu And Ghusl
updated 2 years, 5 months ago
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23
Replies
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Salam….not a moderator….but just a fan of ghamidi sahab….
Im not answering your question here rather just wanted to share some thoughts.To me it appears that South Asian Molvis are too “Fiqhi”…It appears they like lawyers, define everything. Create super strict definition of every act. Like as an hypoethical example “sajdah is ko kehtai hain kai itnay unglee zameen par touch ho, iss angle mai ho” etc. Some South Asian Molvi sahabs apparently even make mustahab things farz. Including Sunnat namaz and witr.
The eye closing part is something I’ve never heard of.This is what saudis website states about ghusl….obviously you’ve seen it….
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/82344/how-to-make-ghusl-for-major-impurityI hope the moderator can address, with evidences what part of ghusl is obligatory and whats is recommended but not obligatory, not to mention is washing once in wudu enough?
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If one doesnt do wuzu in ghusl, then do they have to do wuzu to pray? I mean if one starts ghusl without (step 1 wuzu minus feet, step 2 wash body and feet)?
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The understanding that you developed is correct Haseeb Sahab.
Most of what you find online relating to Wuzu and Ghusl are opinions based on Fiqh. And now a days that fiqh is presented in way that it seems superior to or equivalent to Quran and Sunnah. No such detailing has been done in either of the sources, infact matters have been left to common knowledge where a person’s nature knows how to wash their face, arms etc. when they’re asked to do so.
According to Ghamidi Sahab, fiqh is not something permanent the way it is presented and religion should be taught free of fiqh, ilm-e-kalam, philosophy and tasawwuf. Therefore, his opinions are based on pure understading of Quran and Sunnah, without any amalgamation of fiqh, which is developed by humans initially with a sincere intention of facilitating common muslims in following day-to-day directives of Islam.
Regarding what Quran says how Ghusl should be done, please see:
Discussion 30957 • Reply 30977
Whether Wuzu is compulsory for Ghusl, please see:
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JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,
Your post is helpful and enlightening. Just to clarify:
1.) Based on what you’ve written, this means that there is absolutely no detailing whatsoever on how body parts should be washed in wudu and ghusl, as long as the washing is done thoroughly? I constantly have absurd thoughts, such as the one I listed above about sucking in a drop of water and spitting it out being considered rinsing the mouth. Or, considering the water from the faucet which fills into my hands to be unusable for washing during wudu if water dripping from my face/nose/mouth falls into there. I think I need to simply focus on washing thoroughly instead of dwelling on these things, since I innately know that they don’t have any affect on my wudu and ghusl.
2.) Is the fiqh on washing during wudu and ghusl at least based off what we find in the Hadith literature. If not, then how exactly is this fiqh even developed?
JazakAllah!
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1) Exactly.
2) Fiqh is a readily available handbook which answers all the possible scenarios similar to the scenarios that arise in your mind as well. It is mostly based on ijtihad (Mostly Qiyas) of scholars done to answer every possible scenario that Muslims may encounter in their daily lives. Since more details will derail the topic from primary subject, you can post a separate topic if you need any further details.
Following video will be helpful in this regard:
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Asalamualaikum Mr. Umer Quershi,
I know I don’t need to ask this question because you’ve already made washing in wudu/ghusl very clear, but I just want to confirm. As far as rinsing the nose is concerned, there isn’t a specific method for how this should be done during wudu/ghusl either, correct? For instance, some religious figures put an emphasis on blowing out the nose after putting water into the nose. They also say that one should sniff water up their nose. Are both of these actions – sniffing water up the nose, and blowing water out the nose – also not necessarily prescribed by the sharia, but rather simply a fiqhi idea. In other words, I can rinse my nose however I wish, such as by simply bringing water up into it?
JazakAllah
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Asalamualaikum Mr. Umer Quershi,
Sorry to bother you on this topic again, but there are a few things that have been bugging me which I wanted to clarify with you. If any of these are irrelevant to the forum, please let me know. I’ll create a new forum.
1.) I have trouble with rinsing my nose. Sometimes I feel like water isn’t entering both nostrils, so my solution is to restart wudu/ghusl. Is it acceptable for me to just try to rinse my nose again in the same wudu/ghusl? But then I get confused if this would count as rinsing my nose once or twice. I know this is very nitty gritty, but it’s just something that bothers me. And then I get stuck, because I wonder if I am obliged to rinse my mouth the same number of times as my nose, and if I should rinse my mouth one more time because of this. Usually I rinse both the mouth and nose once.
2.) When I am rinsing my nose during wudu/ghusl, I feel water entering into my mouth too. I can’t tell if I’m deliberately allowing the water to enter my mouth too. But, there have been occasions where I noticed I was taking water into my mouth in addition to my nose, when my intention was only to rinse the nose. However, I tell myself that this doesn’t matter and consciously allow the water to enter my mouth as well, even though my intention is only to rinse the nose at this specific point in wudu/ghusl. Is this okay and am I overthinking?
3.) Is there any harm in using soap in wudu/ghusl? Because in a ‘natural’ sense, it doesn’t seem like an issue to me. But I remember reading on one site that it’s biddah during wudu. This was a few months ago as I don’t visit those sites anymore for my own sake. But because of this reason, I never use soap during ghusl, which is why I take a quick shower before ghusl.
4.) This seems like common sense based off what you told me, but it doesn’t matter how far beyond the boundaries of my limbs I cover with water during wudu, correct? For example, one person said in a video that it should not exceed 1 inch beyond the ankle, elbow, etc. However, I am sure I go more than an inch above the ankle, maybe even 3-4 inches.
JazakAllah
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1) – You can rinse your mouth and/or nose more than once upto maximum of three. Even if due to natural circumstances, you do it more than three times, that is fine too.
– You are not required to follow the same rinsing numbering for mouth and nose.
– Rinsing nose makes water enter both nostrils usually, most of the times its just our doubts which lead to such conclusion. You need not bother if you’re rinsing your nose appropriately.
2) Even if this actually happens, this doesn’t affect your wuzu/ghusl
3) You can use soap. No issue at all.
4) Your understanding is correct. And you need to stop watching such videos for your own sake
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JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi!
1) So again, this maximum is just for wudu, correct? And this means there is no maximum set for rinsing the mouth/nose during ghusl whatsoever?
2) What if I am doing this intentionally? Even then it won’t affect my wuzu/ghusl?
3) Just to confirm, no issue to use soap for both wuzu and ghusl, correct?
4) Yes, I’ve been making an effort to avoid all such websites/videos. I overloaded myself with their content around September/October, as you can probably see in my threads even up until now.
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1, 2 and 3) Correct
4)
no worries
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Salam
Sorry for disturbing.
I hope me replying doesnt cause moderators to think that you have received your reply, or the system at least. If it does you can tag the moderator to remind him to reply.I hope you arent annoyed by me;a non moderator giving his opinion. If yes then you can ask me to stop.
It seems that the super detailed lists of minute, microscopic things that Hanafi muqallids say causes regular masses “lose their mind”. Imho thats a natural reaction.
To me it seems that the super detailed lists of things talked about salah by hanafi muqallids example “yeh makroohe tanzeehi, yeh makrooh, yahan dekho” and giving everything status of farz. Causes salah instead of people concentrating on praising Allah by actions of sujood and by tasbeeh of mouth to people obsessively concentrating on, “did I do any makrooh e tanzeehi” “did I look there at the said position”. And concentrating on those list of thousand items they give us. The whole salah turns into a memorized “ratta walee” physical exericise lacking khushoo coming from heart. Not saying that doing some of those things isnt good, but the obsession that forms as a result of how things are taught.
not sure if you are interested in this private stuff, but the way I do ghusl is, wash private areas , do wudu, then i wash my head in shower and rub hands on body whilst water from hand shower pours; starting from right upper side to lower, and then for left. I dont think any body part gets left intentionally if I do this.
I just wanted to ask the moderator
1-Can we say that some stuff in fiqh isnt really based on sources rather, they are qiyas, reasonings. And the concept of “4 imam ke taqleed” prevalent in South Asia causes these things to be considered as part of deen. I mean for example the female vs male namaz, which seems to be just based on their current hanafi concept of pardah perhaps rather than statements found in sources explicitly. Moreover praying in dark issue, allegedly said by Hanafis to be makrooh. But Saudi Salafi non muqallids, islamqainfo admits prayer is valid if one is able to fulfill conditions of prayer unless, darkness causes such fear that a person’s mind isnt present, (it seems saudis are using the logic of prayer after drinking).-
Valaikumasalam Ali,
No problem at all! I don’t mind that you’re sharing your point of views. In fact, I really appreciate it.
I don’t think you need to worry about moderators not seeing the reply. I’ve never had that problem since joining the forum.
But you raise some interesting points, for sure! JazakAllah for taking the time to do that!
On a side note, you may want to take a look at this thread: Discussion 61424
It helped me tremendously in terms of being able to pray. Though I guess I would need to clarify if things like darkness or factors outside of the prayer matter at some point, since I asked for the prayer itself.
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Ali Sahab,
Please refer to the video of Ghamidi Sahab that I shared above on “Deen and Fiqh“which will answer most of your questions on Fiqh.
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Asalamualaikum Mr. Umer Qureshi,
Another thing that I want to discuss with you is the nature of water changing during wudu and ghusl.
I think I once saw a scholar write that it’s okay if water mixes with a little bit of mucus on the face during wudu, as the nature of water does not change significantly. However, it is implied that one’s face should not have too much mucus so as to not impact the nature of water significantly.
Is this even something I need to take account of? In other words, does it even matter if the nature of water is changing as it comes into contact with my body? And so, I don’t need to take caution with regards to how much mucus is on my face, or how much lotion or vaseline I apply onto my body?
I wonder if this is a purely fiqhi idea.
JazakAllah
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This is fiqhi approach indeed.
As long as you’re performing things in a natural way, you need no bother about these things like changing nature of water etc. Also, these matters are very subjective in nature to begin with, as one cannot set a fixed threshold where one can say with certainty that water has changed its nature beyond this point.
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Mr. Umer Qureshi,
1.) I noticed that I tend to spend a lot of time washing my face during wudu, whereas washing other body parts does not take as long and is not as difficult. Do you have any advice? And can one trust their instinct in wudu/ghusl with regards to water reaching a part of the body based on their experience in washing. This is easier than checking!
2.) When performing wudu, is there any issue with tending to a body part that is not meant to be washed at that time. For example, I am washing my arms according to the step on wudu, but realize that there is some dirt I want to remove from my face. Is there any issue with going back to remove the dirt from my face?
3.) For the nose, you said that it’s usually just a doubt that water did not enter both nostrils. So should a person ignore such doubts in general unless they are certain that water did not enter both nostrils? And I mean for a person who normally does not have doubts. And in ghusl, for example, I make water reach my entire body. But I rinse my mouth and nose normally, which means that my goal is not to make water reach them entirely. Am I still appropriate rinsing my mouth and nose in spite of this?
JazakAllah
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1) Your experience is a good guide in this regard and you can trust it. Unless I know the reason why its taking too long to wash your face, It is hard to comment on it. Just follow the natural way how you wash your face.
2) As long as it is occuring in natural course of events, it is fine to do that.
3) As long as the water is poured inside the nose, the water has reached unless there is clear evidence pointing othewise. There is no need to investigate further. I did not properly undertand the Ghusl part, but minimum criteria for Ghusl is washing the body thoroughly.
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JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi!
1) I guess when I’m washing my face normally, such as when brushing my teeth, I don’t tend to wash the entire face. Just pour water over it, so I probably overcompensate during wudu and try to make sure that especially the extremities of the face, like near the hairline and close to the ears are covered. It doesn’t take too, too long, but just tedious sometimes.
3) Sorry, what I meant was that typically I hear that the body is washed thoroughly in ghusl when water reaches it entirely. I understand that rinsing the nose and mouth is not obligatory, so it doesn’t matter if water reaches there. But if I want water to reach there as something extra to be even more thorough, then along the same lines, do I have to make sure that water reaches the entirety of the inside of the mouth and the entirety of the inside of the nostrils? Or this is something that’s too much, and a simple rinse and simple clean of the nose – however I like and feel comfortable – is okay. The other thing is that sometimes I doubt that water has even been poured into one nostril over the other.
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1) Don’t focus on minute details, just wash your face normally, but with the intention and effort to wash it properly. You need not check its vaidity subsequently, unless something certain comes to your attention in normal course of events.
2) You can perform wuzu before Ghusl except for feet (which can be washed at the end) by following uswa of the Prophet (sws). In that way, your mouth and nose will also be washed properly in the beginning. But as a principle, it is not mandatory, so you need not worry about mouth and nose part. Also, as for water reaching the nose, ignore the doubts.
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JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,
But, for 2), if I want to follow the uswa of the Prophet (sws), then how I normally rinse the mouth and nose is sufficient, right? I don’t have to make sure that water reaches the entirety of the mouth or that it reaches the entirety of the nostrils, from the opening to the nasal bone?
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And regarding 1), does this mean that if I wash my face thoroughly, then it does not matter if water is reaching those extremities (e.g., near hairline, ear, etc.)? As in, I don’t need to make an effort to do that either. Because I don’t feel that most people focus on that when washing their face under normal circumstances when not performing wudu.
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Yes that is correct regarding washing face.
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If you follow uswa then you have to wash your parts the way you do it for Wuzu. Nothing additional, just Wuzu like attitude.
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no worries 
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