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Quran’s Claim That Deen Has Always Been The Same
I’ve been thinking about this for a while and it causes me unease. Perhaps the most important claim of the Quran is that Allah’s Deen and the prophets’ Sunnan has always been the same: Islam.
Now, my knowledge of Judaism is nowhere near substantial. But from the little research I’ve done I get the impression that the Hebrew Bible, even the Torah, is devoid of concepts of Heaven, Hell, Judgement Day, and Shaytan. At least in the same vein as they are in the Quran.
Yes, there are the concepts of Gan Eden, Sheol, Gehinnom, Rosh Hashanab, and Yetzer Hara but they are practically nothing like the Quranic counterparts/concepts. From what I’ve seen, eschatology is not the focus of the Hebrew Bible whereas that’s all what the Quran is about.
These seem like major discrepancies to me that question the very foundational claim of the Quran that the prophets taught the same Deen. How come these are absent from Jewish literature? Not just Rabbinical literature, but the core that is the Hebrew Bible.
From the Jewish perspective it seems the same as Ghamidi sahib’s view on return of Isa AS. Isa AS return would be such a momentous eschatological event that SURELY the Quran would’ve mentioned it.
Similarly, the Quranic concepts of Heaven, Hell, Judgement Day, Shaytan are so essential that SURELY the Hebrew Bible would contain them as core concepts. This posits a serious doubt in my mind that those people practiced the same Deen/Sunnan.
In addition to your answers, if Ghamidi sahib has addressed this that would also help immensely.
Just to add a bit more. My impression is that the goal of the Jewish religion is turning this life into “heaven.” It is the completion of Creation and the achievement of the Messianic Age.
Whereas the Quran preaches this life only matters in so far as being a place of tribulation. Eternal Creation and Heaven will supersede this life.
Again, to me personally, this difference seems too great of a discrepancy in literature, culture, generational psychology, and oral tradition to explain as deviation of the Jewish people from the true teachings/Deen of the prophets.
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Quran’s Claim That Deen Has Always Been The Same
updated 2 weeks, 1 day ago
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For absence of concept of heaven and hell in torah please see Discussion 54413 • Reply 57844
ask.ghamidi.org
Concept Of Hell As Evidence For Torah Corruption? - Ask Ghamidi
I would start by saying that Ghamidi Sahab believes that only history of People of the Book is corrupted but the Holy Books are intact.Issue is that in
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Thank you! That helped a lot with understanding how the Torah can leave out stuff like this.
I would still like to ask though, how can we explain the absence of the consciousness of: one Final Judgement, Resurrection & Eternal Life, and the fact this life is merely a prelude, in the works and psychology of the Tanakh/Jewish people as a whole.
Again, I’d like to use the analogy for Isa AS’ return and Ghamidi sahib’s view. These are such important matters, that to not be in the Tanakh, seems a bit off to me. Especially considering how vast the Tanakh is, incorporating all sorts of works by different people through the times.
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It is explained in that video. I know it, because I asked that original question.
Children of Israel had a constant source of warners (prophets) and presence of God in front of them. They were always warned orally about these things. And Talmud (which is referred to the oral Torah) does make reference to afterlife, showing how scholars who were reading the Torah were understanding the law of God.
Furthermore, the bigger question is that why would Israelite care about Divine Law if it had no serious consequences, think on that for a second. Why have a law, if it has no effect on their afterlife? Jews care too much about Law of Torah but they need to explain why do they care? What’s the gain, what’s the loss? It is referred what it is:
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Book of Daniel 12:2)
Furthermore, why was Hazrat Isa (PBUH) even sent if the religion was totally fine? Because Israelite sliced the religion in half. As I pointed out early, why have a law if there is no consequences? Hazrat Isa (PBUH) came to answer that, to remind the Israelite that eternal reward and punishment awaits, that is why Law of the Prophets must be followed, which is why the concept is much stronger in Christianity, it reminds Israelites which they forgotten and why Christians preach about Law being fulfilled by Atonement act i.e fulfilling the Law leads to eternal life, this is implied, meaning Israelite knew about this.
Furthermore Qur’an refers to Jews having this belief:
And they say: “The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:”
Say: “Have ye taken a promise from Allah, for He never breaks His
promise? or is it that ye say of Allah what ye do not know?” (Qur’an 2:80)Why is a sect of Jews 1400 years ago know about a Fire? If there is no concept of afterlife in Jews, why are there sects of Jews that believe in it? Because their prophets had an oral tradition about it.
And Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: These are people who are considered important [yekarim] in this world and unimportant [kefuyim] in the World-to-Come. This is like the incident involving Rav Yosef, son of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi, who became ill and was about to expire. When he returned to good health, his father said to him: What did you see when you were about to die? He said to him: I saw an inverted world. Those above, i.e., those who are considered important in this world, were below, insignificant, while those below, i.e., those who are insignificant in this world, were above. He said to him: My son, you have seen a clear world. The world you have seen is the true world, as in that world people’s standings befit them. (Pesachim 50a) https://www.sefaria.org/Pesachim.50a.6?lang=bi
Say: “If an afterlife with God is to be for you alone, to the exclusion
of all other people, then. you should long for death-if what you say is
true!” (Qur’an 2:94)And they say, “None will enter
Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian.” That is [merely] their
wishful thinking, Say, “Produce your proof, if you should be truthful.” (Qur’an 2:111)So apparently there are Jews who believe in afterlife, if the claim that there is no afterlife and all in previous religion, where are these people in time of Prophet (PBUH) getting their concepts from? If not oral tradition? Same way our Sunnah to us?
And even if one wants to insist that there is no such concept of previous religion, it doesn’t explain how you people answer life’s questions, where we come from, our morality, what happens after death etc. These questions can only be answered by these major concepts, that’s why they have always existed in every time period, anything less won’t satisfy religious narrative as I pointed out early, why cling to a Torah Law if there is no serious consequences? Because the Jews knew that the Law from God did affect their Afterlife.
Qur’an is however very clear, and more clear than Christians sources because there is no going be no warners to come. They needs to function as a book and a prophet. Before Qur’an, they were prophets who were talking about Paradise, Hell and all, we know it because people in time of Prophet (PBUH) were discussing them, it was essential for them to discuss it because when a new prophet arrives, their afterlife gets affected otherwise why would Jews want to oppose Prophet (PBUH) or disagree with him if there was no Hell for them at all?
sefaria.org
And Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: These are people who are considered important [yekarim] in this world and unimportant [kefuyim] in the World-to-Come. This is...
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