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Forums Forums Epistemology and Philosophy Lizard (Goh) Halal?

  • Umer

    Moderator August 22, 2020 at 8:32 am

    It belongs to Mushtabihaat (grey area) as per Ghamidi Sahab, and usool for mushtabihaat has been explained in the second video that I shared in the following thread:

    Discussion 25826

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 22, 2020 at 8:33 am

      Yes I saw the video but why doesn’t the usul of predatory nature apply. Also doesn’t it seem like something disgusting to eat?

    • Umer

      Moderator August 22, 2020 at 8:40 am

      I haven’t done much study on its nature but I think Prophet (sws) himself didn’t eat it based on the same principle; but at the same time, it has been acknowledged that at rare times, there will be subjectivity in deciding an animal’s nature and that diversity has been kept–but it is requirement of taqwa to prefer the hurmat element in such grey areas as well.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 22, 2020 at 8:41 am

      But I don’t think this can be classed as a grey area. So either the Hadith is wrong or there is something special about this animal or the usul may be wrong

    • Umer

      Moderator August 22, 2020 at 8:52 am

      I can’t comment on the animal’s nature at the moment, need to study it a bit more fore I could comment on that.

      But as a principle, something presented as usool/ principle always takes precedence over incidents/applications.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 22, 2020 at 9:02 am

      Ok please do let me know bhai 👍

  • Umer

    Moderator August 30, 2020 at 5:18 am

    In recent Q&A session with Ghamidi Sahab on questions selected from AskGhamidi Platform:

    For answer to your question, please refer to the video below from 1:06:55 to 1:09:19

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 30, 2020 at 1:38 pm

      So did the sahaba not have this required level of Taqwa? If the prophet of God ‎﴾ﷺ﴿ is saying that his fitrah is not accepting this as something to eat who’s fitrah could be more perfect than his?

      I don’t understand how from one sitting to another (or even in the same sitting between different people for that matter) something could be halal and haraam. I really can’t think of any valid grey area.

      Eg snake- it eats like a predator and according to Ghamidi sahabs own principles this would make it haraam. Same with goh

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 30, 2020 at 3:48 pm

      And I believe the wording in hadith is I am neither it’s forbidder nor it’s eater. It seems like a personal disgust. If this hadith is correct then the usul of predatory nature doesn’t seem to make sense

  • Umer

    Moderator August 31, 2020 at 3:25 pm

    Neither is there any list presented by religion nor should we try to make one. If my fitrat tells me that something is not appropriate to eat and I decide to eat it any way then I’ll be held accountable, but if I genuinely think that some animal belongs to taiyyab category and I eat that animal then I will not be held accountable.

    Most of the times our fitrat guides us correctly in terms of what to eat and what not. Exceptions will always be there and there will also be differences in application of certain principles.

    For further insight, please refer to the video below from 43:53 till the end.

  • Md Saifuddin

    Member August 31, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    video not available from USA

    • Umer

      Moderator September 1, 2020 at 6:59 pm

      I am sorry! Probably Dunya Tv has restricted the video. It is from the official You tube channel of Dunya Tv of the program ‘ilm-o-Hikmat’ with Ghamidi Sahab.

      @AhmadShoaib Is the video accessible to you?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor September 2, 2020 at 12:21 am

      Yes I can watch it

  • Umer

    Moderator September 1, 2020 at 8:03 pm

    One thing that can create a misunderstanding is the word predatory, I think the more appropriate word is beastly nature (Darindagi) e.g. lion, tiger, Shark etc. which draws a clear line between halal and harm. Then there are animals in between this category which could be predatory but not actually beastly in nature, which could put them in the grey area. There is also a category which is neither predatory nor beastly in nature like horse, donkey etc. but also falls in the same grey area. This is the Mushtabihaat category.

    This video will add further insight into the matter hopefully. @Saif Sahab! you can also refer to the video below if the above link is not accessible to you.

    Please refer to the video below from 1:34:34 to 1:38:22

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor September 2, 2020 at 12:38 am

    Ok @UmerQureshi bhai it is all good except one last thing:

    Why didn’t the sahaba stop their hand from eating the goh after the final source of deen from Allah expressed he does not like it? It seems to be from the wording that I am neither it’s prohibiter nor its eater. So was the prophet ‎﴾ﷺ﴿ not a prophet when he was giving this irshad? Or was it just an expression of personal distaste or did he not like the taste?

    And if he was clearing up a grey category here as a prophet of God then why didn’t they stop?

  • Umer

    Moderator September 3, 2020 at 12:53 pm

    This topic has been discussed at length in today’s session. Please refer to the video below from 28:20 to 54:04

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor September 3, 2020 at 2:45 pm

      So a messenger comes and makes the grey matters either halal or haraam. So why was the prophets ‎﴾ﷺ﴿ fitri ibah disregarded? If it was a normal human who was making his own choice fine. But this is a prophet of God

    • Umer

      Moderator September 3, 2020 at 2:49 pm

      Because this diversity of human nature has not been completely disregarded.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor September 3, 2020 at 2:55 pm

      Prohibiting this one animal doesn’t negate diversity. Wherever the prophet ‎﴾ﷺ﴿ makes mention of his fitri dislike it should be taken as a clearing up of a grey matter. The diversity wasnt completely disregarded when Allah made pig haraam so why here?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor March 13, 2021 at 1:15 pm
    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 13, 2021 at 1:32 pm

      Narrations must be understood by collecting all narrations on a certain topic, and then understanding them in the light of the Quran.

      Please see:

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