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  • Bidaat Of Quraysh

    Ahmad Shoaib updated 3 years, 2 months ago 5 Members · 20 Replies
  • Muhammad Faisal Naveed

    Member December 26, 2020 at 2:57 pm

    As per history every religion, when practiced for long time, culminated into mythology same happened with all God made and man made religions. Deen e Haneef is not the exception too. Worshippers are interested in rituals and festivities rather than foundations of religion. We also came across the said chasm theses days.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor December 26, 2020 at 2:57 pm

      Then how is ijma and tawatur of current Muslims different?

    • Muhammad Faisal Naveed

      Member December 26, 2020 at 3:13 pm

      Ijma and tawatur in islam are guided by written quran as final revelation and its enshrined touch stones which were not available to ex-Qurash.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor December 26, 2020 at 3:50 pm

      How to pray is not in the Quran. As we know the quraysh introduced bidah into the sunnah such as the tawaaf

  • Muhammad Faisal Naveed

    Member December 26, 2020 at 4:00 pm
    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor December 26, 2020 at 4:03 pm

      Then why do Jews not pray like this anymore- nor the Christians. Even the quraysh had interpolations which apparently should not happen with ijma and tawatur

  • Umer

    Moderator December 26, 2020 at 4:28 pm

    Please refer to following videos for a little refresher:

    Please refer from 22:03 to 26:31

  • Umer

    Moderator December 26, 2020 at 4:28 pm

    Please refer from 34:20 to 38:42

  • Umer

    Moderator December 26, 2020 at 4:28 pm

    Please refer from 34:25 to 38:50

  • Umer

    Moderator December 26, 2020 at 4:28 pm

    Please refer from 42:29 to 49:43

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor December 26, 2020 at 5:01 pm

    So even though there was tawatur bidaat were introduced into the religion of Abraham. This is what I’m saying. How is our tawatur any more secure?

    • Umer

      Moderator December 26, 2020 at 5:08 pm

      Just like those Bidahs were identifiable similarly Bidahs in today’s time are also identifiable, but with more accuracy. As can be witnessed with regards to Hajj, Prophet Muhammad (sws) did the Hajj as was prescribed without any Bidah.

  • Ismail Akram

    Member December 26, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    When it comes to this issue, I firstly believe that hadith in issues like this can be used to protect from bidah entering the religion. I believe religion can be changed if it was only through tawatur and ijma only. I like to refer to these 2 more as action based matters, rather than a literal one, which is represented by the hadith. Through sociological subjects like cultural change, which is a subject of its own which talks and proves how a culture through different methods can be affected through time. Even though it is speaking about culture, I believe it also can be applied to religion because of the similarities in how both use practices and rituals. I also have a short article that can confirm the similarities between both, https://doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228613.013.166. Also, previous times also show how bidah crept into the prophets from the past, which led to changes in them. That is why even though the Quraish, Christians, and Jews all have their roots date back to Ibrahim AS, Allah (SWT) still sent another prophet to help the people because the people had gone astray. That is why I believe that Quran should be the #1 source, however in explaining the details and making sure the details don’t change throughout time. Hadith are needed to keep the structure and consistency.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor December 27, 2020 at 10:34 pm

      I think there should be a clear example. The Quraysh knew the prayer and hajj too- the Jews still pray- Christians we know had their shariah abrogated by Paul so there’s no question that their bidaat have tawatur

  • Ismail Akram

    Member December 26, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    Hadiths always to show a literal text on specific issue allow the professionals in this Science of hadith and fiqh to be able to keep the religious practices strong. For example, let’s say I bought some furniture from IKEA and was building it. I need the instructions manual to help, yes maybe if I was a professional I could do it on my own, but as a whole, IKEA won’t just take away instructions. The literal instructions allow me to see what is right and what is wrong in a straight and direct form. Islam is too vast and complex to take away that instruction manual. The Muhadiths have understood this complex science of hadith and have written their fiqh books and allowed users to use these instruction manuals. Even though this manual might be needed to be read by a professional like an Islamic scholar, it still allows this religion to be kept throughout time. The science of hadith has too much value and influence to just be put aside.

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor December 27, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @faisalharoon thoughts on Ismail’s post?

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator December 27, 2020 at 10:30 pm

      If you’re missing me, you can just call me to say salam 😊😊

      On the topic I have already explained to you my understanding in the following post:

      Discussion 33724

      I agree with Ismail that hadith is very valuable, however, it’s not an independent source of religion. Again, you can refer to my responses in the post above for details.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor December 27, 2020 at 10:33 pm

      إن شاء الله soon- this time difference is weird so I don’t want to disturb you though

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator December 27, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    No worries, that was a joke anyway.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor December 27, 2020 at 10:35 pm

      😅

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