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  • Namaaz In Urdu

    Posted by Mohammed Qasim on February 28, 2021 at 3:05 pm

    Namaaz main ham jo bhi padhte hain including Quran ki tilawat ham Arbi mein padhne ke paband kyun hai. Kuchh reasons mile Jo puri tarah sahi nahin lagte per yah pabandi kahan se akhaz hui.

    Agar waqai ham log paband hain to kya yeh sahi hai ki ham sirf recitation sikh len, cheezon ko rat len aur bagair samjhe padhne ko kafi mane. Aksar madaaris aur Islamic schools isi ko sahi mante hain aur yahi talim dete hain.

    Eik Canadian preacher Shabbir Ally ne kaha ke ( at 5:00 https://youtu.be/yOuwT1hAzHc ) Quran-O-Hadees mein esi koi pabandi ka zikar nahi hai. To agar ham Urdu mein namaaz padhenge to qubool hogi?

    Nadeem Minhas replied 3 years ago 5 Members · 40 Replies
  • 40 Replies
  • Namaaz In Urdu

    Nadeem Minhas updated 3 years ago 5 Members · 40 Replies
  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor February 28, 2021 at 6:37 pm

    And I guess one could say that it’s better to read in Arabic but do we really have any evidence to say it would be haraam to not read it in Arabic? Because of course this would be a fully ijtihaad based issue since I don’t think the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ever encountered this issue. So what is the evidence for this ijtihaad usually presented that it should be read in Arabic m?

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator February 28, 2021 at 7:11 pm

    Reading Al-Fatiha and some portion of the Quran in Arabic is necessary. The evidence of this is in the sunnah transmitted to us through ijma and tawatur. A big portion of the salat can be made in any language.

    Please see the following for details:

    Discussion 5706

    and

    Discussion 42657 • Reply 42659

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor February 28, 2021 at 7:12 pm

      How did this ijma and tawattur form in an issue that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would never have had to encounter?

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator February 28, 2021 at 7:13 pm

      Read my responses in our previous discussions about ijma and tawatur and contemplate.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor February 28, 2021 at 7:16 pm

      No I mean I get how it would form that if the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم taught this directive and people went to different locations and all had the same view etc etc that would be fine. Rather I’m questioning that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ever taught this to anyone and they ever gathered on it. What source is there that says the sahabah agreed on this? I think Imaam Abu hanifa said you can pray in Persian. If you have a record of this ijma and tawattur please do let me know. I’m not questioning the concept of there being ijma and tawattur rather asking for the source which says it was there in this matter

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator February 28, 2021 at 7:41 pm

      If he never taught it to anyone then there was no reason for sahaba who moved to different parts of the world to keep reciting in Arabic and to teach others to do the same.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 1, 2021 at 3:57 am

      The sahabah were all Arabs so of course they would recite in Arabic. The question is did h prohibit them from reciting in another language?

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 4:06 am

      Yes exactly, then only it could be said that there was ijma for arabic and it is transferred to us via tawatur

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 4:16 am

      @faisalharoon sir your point is logically valid but again it’s based on guess.

      In contrast to this there are many points from quran and hadees that indirectly support performing namaaz in one’s own language.

      I could be wrong. I could have understood incorrectly. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am posting whatever I have gathered one by one.

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 4:23 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      1. Namaaz was also farz on other prophets ummah. And they use to perform in their own language. So why are we all need to perform in a language (Arabic) that we don’t understand.

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 4:38 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      2. If Prophet Muhammad came to extend the previous deen of all prophets then why specifying a salah language is necessary.

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 4:44 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      3. (According to Shabir Ally) There’s nothing in Quran and Sahi-Hadees to make Arabic language compulsory for Salah.

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 5:10 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      4. From Ghamidi Sir I have understood that the Purification is the objective of deen. And in his book Mizan, section of Namaaz, he cited the verses of Quran and explained that the Salah is a way to attain Purification.

      So if you will not understand whatever you are reciting in Salah, then how will that recitation help you to purify your inner soul. Its not possible right? It’s like doing something and forgetting its objective and what is it for.

      And in the entire Namaaz I think the Quranic part has the maximum power of Purification. Then why is it okay to recite it and not understand it.

      There’s two very small video by Ghamidi sir on a similar topic that will help you understand my point more clearly.

      https://youtu.be/83kV4S4J5fg

      https://youtu.be/lawTDktXUdc

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 5:18 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      5. Maulana Wahiduddin Khan Sir wrote “Quran ba-zahir arbi zaban mein hai, lekin apni haqeeqat ke aetebaar se wo fitrat ki zaban mein hai.”

      If in reality Quran is in the language of Fitrat then why are we restricting it to be recited only in Arabic in Salah.

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 5:30 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      6. Islam is a deen of Fitrat. And our fitrat says when we are doing worship, we should understand it and we should do it with all our heart. And it shouldn’t be just like an exercise and some mere physical and oral movements.

      So why only recitation in Arabic is mandatory and understanding has not been given much importance.

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 5:44 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      7. A saying of Ibn Abbas (Raz) is narrated in Ibn Tamiyah ‘s book Majmoo al Fatawa that “You will only get that part of your salah that you have performed with understanding”.

      And if this is right then the majority of muslims are not understanding their Salah because it is in Arabic.

      And we are never told that understanding is very much important. Rather we think that there’s nothing wrong in not understanding our prayer.

    • Mohammed Qasim

      Member March 1, 2021 at 6:10 am

      Reasons for performing Namaaz in one’s own language. (It could be wrong. It needs clarification)

      (Last one.) 8. In Ashraful Hidayah Vol.: 02 page no.:34 and 35: It is mention that Farsi people told Salman Farsi (Raz) to send the translation of Surah Fatiha to be recited in Salah until they learn Arabic. He wrote the translation and shown it to Prophet Muhammad pbuh then Prophet Muhammad pbuh didn’t object on it.

      So when Prophet Muhammad pbuh didn’t object on Farsi recitation of Surah Fatiha then why are we restricted to Arabic only.

      (Well I don’t know whether this narration is Sahih or Zaeef and I don’t know how to check. So if anybody will tell me the authenticity of this, I shall be very much grateful. I am attaching the photo of the pages.)

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 1, 2021 at 5:44 am

      I haven’t read the entire conversation, but isn’t Ghamidi Sahib said that only when praying in a mosque, the parts that are recited aloud should be in Arabic for unity of Muslims and to ensure no matter where you go, the prayer is the same. Beyond this and praying at home you can be perform prayer in your own language.

      Still I think keeping in Arabic and learning the meaning is a better solution.

      It is just like keeping and learning Quran in Arabic to preserve original message while at the same times learning the translation. Since no translation is perfect and all translations are slightly different, learning and using original arabic is to keep the original alive and preserved.

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member February 28, 2021 at 9:51 pm

    There is a solution for this. The prayer can be in Arabic and any other language at the same time.

    I learnt translation of prayer and even though I pray in Arabic, I understand as if I am praying in my own language.

    Verse by verse, it just takes a few weeks to learn it all.

  • Altamash Ali

    Member March 1, 2021 at 6:58 am

    bi-smi llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm

    what about this?


    this is a hadith of Sahih Muslim : 822a


    Abu Wa’il reported that a person named Nabik b. Sinan came to Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) and said:

    Abu ‘Abd al-Rahman, how do you recite this word (alif) or (ya)? Would you read It as: min ma’in ghaira asin or au min ma’in ghaira ghaira yasin. (al-Qur’an, xlvii. 15)? ‘Abdullah said: You (seem to) have memorised the whole of the Qur’an except this. He (again) said: I recite all the mufassal surahs in one rak’ah. Upon this ‘Abdullah said: (You must have been reciting It) hastily like the recitation of poetry. Verily. there are people who recite the Qur’an, but it does not go down beyond their collar bones. It is (a fact with the Qur’an) that it is beneficial only when it settles in the heart and is rooted deeply in it. The best of (the acts) in prayer are bowing and prostration. I am quite aware of the occasions when the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) combined together two surahs in every rak’ah. ‘Abdullah then stood up and went out with ‘Alqama following in his footstep. He said Ibn Numair had told him that the narration was like that:” A person belonging to Banu Bajila came to ‘Abdullah,” and he did not mention (the name of) Nahik b. Sinan.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So from Above hadith i have found one thing That : The best of (the acts) in prayer are bowing and prostration.


    now all other things are secondary right?

    so for secondary things in prayer we have been Ordered by Prophet (peace be upon him) to pray as we have seen him according to this hadith of Al-Adab Al-Mufrad : 213 (this Hadith is Sahih graded by Al-Albani.)

    The Prophet (ﷺ) said, Pray as you have seen me praying. When it is time for the prayer, then let one of you give the adhan and let the oldest of you lead the payer.

    so until now all this talk is about Acts ; about how to do prayer how to stand up and how to bow down.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    let’s have a look on the Question : Do ‘reading Quran in Prophet’s way’ is Act?

    Answer is NO

    read that hadith of Sahih Muslim that i quoted above which says :

    Verily. there are people who recite the Qur’an, but it does not go down beyond their collar bones. It is (a fact with the Qur’an) that it is beneficial only when it settles in the heart and is rooted deeply in it.

    let’s compare this to one other hadith.

    “Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said “No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) kissing you I would not have kissed you.”

    Sahih al-Bukhari : 1597

    so From here.

    near me :

    1. the central point of prayer Is bowing and prostration in a way that prophet bowed and did prayer.
    2. the secondary point is to recite the Quran in a way which would be most beneficial to me and that way can only be sensed by my heart through reciting in my language at the level that can reach at this level ↣ ‘only when Quran settles in the heart and is rooted deeply in it.’

    3. this point is most important one, due to the fact that Prophet ( peace be upon him) was Arabic and Allāh ﷻ revealed the Quran in his language so that he can preach near Makka & u know it is only reason why Quran is in Arabic because Allāh ﷻ cared about Prophet ﷺ so that he can preach Quran easily and can do Itmam al-Hujjah on Arabs, read : وَكَذَٰلِكَ أَوْحَيْنَآ إِلَيْكَ قُرْءَانًا عَرَبِيًّۭا لِّتُنذِرَ أُمَّ ٱلْقُرَىٰ وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا وَتُنذِرَ يَوْمَ ٱلْجَمْعِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ ۚ فَرِيقٌۭ فِى ٱلْجَنَّةِ وَفَرِيقٌۭ فِى ٱلسَّعِيرِ ۝

    And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur’an that you may warn the Mother of Cities [Makkah] and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze.

    Quran 42:7

    yeah so i was on the point that Prophet ﷺ was an Arab and Thus Quran is revealed for him in Arabic. i would like to Learn Quran in Arabic and also like to learn arabic just like why Umar (رضي الله عنه) kissed the Stone because of love of Prophet ﷺ that he Kissed that Black Stone and Stones usually have no benefit and like wise in Hadith of Sahih-Muslim it is described that It is (a fact with the Qur’an) that it is beneficial only when it settles in the heart and is rooted deeply in it.

    so at last the point while reading Quran must be that it Root Deep in heart. if it deeply affect your heart in Arabic while you know some Arabic it is ok, and if it deep root u in your language it must be done in that way. while the best act is to bow down before lord of Worlds and that is great feeling to submit ourself to Creator to all Knowing of universe 🙂


    🙂


    Salam. May Allāh ﷻ guide us all and let me know if i am wrong anywhere.

    Salam.

    and lots of Dua for Ghamidi Sahab

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator March 1, 2021 at 8:36 am

    As I stated above, reading Al-Fatiha and some portion of the Quran in Arabic is necessary. The evidence of this is in the sunnah transmitted to us through ijma and tawatur. A big portion of the salat can be made in any language. Narrations and our own reasoning regarding perceived benefits cannot be used to go against the sunnah.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 1, 2021 at 8:37 am

      Please present the record of this ijma. You made the claim that there is ijma so what led you to this conclusion and that the sahabah believed the same?

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 1, 2021 at 8:39 am

      I have explained that in other discussions regarding ijma and tawatur.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 1, 2021 at 8:40 am

      Yes I understand that there would be a consensus recorded in fiqh books so what fiqh books mention this issue and say it must be in Arabic? As mentioned above I don’t think imaam Abu hanifa agrees

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 1, 2021 at 8:48 am

      Here are a few testimonies… I can attest to the last 40 years and my father can attest to an additional 50 years and my father confirms that his father confirmed for another 30 years that the prayer was being performed in this manner and in Arabic language. I am sure we can easily collect sufficient testimonies around the World to prove Ijma and twatur. We can also look at old books and old info. Isn’t this how it is suppose to work?

    • Altamash Ali

      Member March 1, 2021 at 9:26 am

      isn’t it kinda weird to think?

      to collect testimony from past 40-50 years?

      while when Deen was at it’s young stage people believed according to that Sahih Muslim hadith. and also we have no clear prohibition to this and also that Quran clearly say that It is in Arabic because People Around Makka Spoke Arabic

      Verily. there are people who recite the Qur’an, but it does not go down beyond their collar bones. It is (a fact with the Qur’an) that it is beneficial only when it settles in the heart and is rooted deeply in it. The best of (the acts) in prayer are bowing and prostration.

      -Sahih Muslim : 822a

      and while Quran also say that

      فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًۭا ۚ فِطْرَتَ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّتِى فَطَرَ ٱلنَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا ۚ لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ ٱللَّهِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ ٱلدِّينُ ٱلْقَيِّمُ وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ ٱلنَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ۝

      So be steadfast in faith in all uprightness ˹O Prophet˺—the natural Way of Allah which He has instilled in ˹all˺ people. Let there be no change in this creation of Allah. That is the Straight Way, but most people do not know.

      -Qur’ān 30:30

      so my innocent Question is do Arabic instilled in every one’s natural Way(Fitrah)?

      For me answer is NO!! & if we try to think rationally than it’s true that no kid learn Arabic on it’s own means Arabic is not instilled in our genes

      and I’m again with that Sahih Muslim’s Hadith because

      The best of (the acts) in prayer are bowing and prostration.


      and all the people through out the land illiterate literate, rich poor or anyone living non-living anything bow down to him and ask him and praise him in their own language in which their heart find Peace by remembrance of God

      and the previous sentence is extract of two Quranic Ayah


      1. وَٱلنَّجْمُ وَٱلشَّجَرُ يَسْجُدَانِ۝

      The stars and the trees bow down ˹in submission˺.

      -Qur’ān 55:6


      2. أَلَا بِذِكْرِ ٱللَّهِ تَطْمَئِنُّ ٱلْقُلُوبُ۝

      Unquestionably, it is in the remembrance of God that hearts find peace

      -Qur’ān 13:28

      And from my experience maybe i can say that Reading only Quran without understanding it doesn’t effect heart and give peace to heart to that extent compared to reading it with understanding and feeling the Poetic sound of Arabic Quran together

      So, At last like how i like to kiss Black-Stone of Kaaba because Prophet kissed it.

      in Same way i would like to read Quran in Arabic in Prayers because Prophet Read it. but My focus would be that it must Root deep in my Heart 🙂

      and at last Again.


      فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًۭا ۚ فِطْرَتَ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّتِى فَطَرَ ٱلنَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا ۚ لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ ٱللَّهِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ ٱلدِّينُ ٱلْقَيِّمُ وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ ٱلنَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ۝

      So be steadfast in faith in all uprightness ˹O Prophet˺—the natural Way of Allah which He has instilled in ˹all˺ people. Let there be no change in this creation of Allah. That is the Straight Way, but most people do not know.

      –Qur’ān 30:30

      Salam!

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 1, 2021 at 9:20 am

      Please keep this discussion on topic. If you have any concerns regarding Imam Abu Hanifah’s understanding, please create a new discussion with proper references.

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator March 1, 2021 at 10:18 am

    Altamash Ali sahab the hadith in Sahih Muslim you referenced above is talking about ruku and sujood. What we recite in those acts is up to us; as long as we’re glorifying God we are free to use any language.

    The discussion here is regarding the mandatory recitations of the salah. In religion things are not determined by picking one thing from here, another from there, and then rationalizing them to suit our desire. Sunnah of prophet Muhammad SAW is is as clear as the Quran, and has been transmitted to us through ijma and tawatur. You can search this forum for those terms for further details. If there’s still any clarity required, please feel free to create a new discussion with an objective question in that regard.

  • Mohammed Qasim

    Member March 1, 2021 at 10:27 am

    @faisalharoon sir where will we find the proof of ijmah for making Arabic as compulsory language for Recitation of Quran in Salah.

    Sir please present the record for this ijmah.

    Please.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 1, 2021 at 10:31 am

      As in any sunnah we look at people all around the world today and trace it back in history to find any evidence of innovation or corruption. If none found then it’s considered sunnah as long as it meets certain criteria which are listed here:

      Discussion 880

  • Mohammed Qasim

    Member March 1, 2021 at 10:36 am

    @AhmadShoaib brother I personally think that there is no valid proof of ijmah for this issue. Because if there would be valid proof of ijmah then why would Imam Abu Hanifa disagree and had a different view.

    What do you think about this?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 1, 2021 at 10:37 am

      Well it would have to be seen on what basis he disagreed. If it was actually based on ijma and tawattur and he went against it then the view doesn’t hold weight

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 1, 2021 at 10:37 am

      Also the practicality is an issue because there are probably dozens of translations

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 1, 2021 at 10:41 am

      Personally I don’t even know of any evidence that Imam Abu Hanifah disagreed in this regard. If he did, today we would definitely find a large number of people in areas dominated by his fiqh reciting obligatory recitations in their own regional languages.

  • Mohammed Qasim

    Member March 1, 2021 at 11:25 am

    In this playlist from part 44 to 51 there are 8 lectures of Ghamidi Sir (each around 1 hour) explaining the topic “Principles of Determining the Sunnah”

    I will study this first then I’ll check the proof of ijmah for this issue then only I can decide about my viewpoint. Now I am undecided.

    Till then let’s consider that it is compulsory for us to recite the Quranic part only in Arabic. Now let’s discuss the second part of the question:

    “Agar waqai ham log paband hain to kya yeh sahi hai ki ham sirf recitation sikh len, cheezon ko rat len aur bagair samjhe padhne ko kafi mane. Aksar madaaris aur Islamic schools isi ko sahi mante hain aur yahi talim dete hain.”

    What is the correct way of learning the arabic?

    @faisalharoon sir, brother @AhmadShoaib , brother @altmash , brother @Sonnadi

  • Mohammed Qasim

    Member March 1, 2021 at 11:26 am

    @faisalharoon sir, brother @AhmadShoaib , brother @altmash , brother @Sonnadi

    Please consider the second part of the question a bit important because I am one among the responsible person in an Islamic School and we have to decide something for our students. Right now our students are only memorizing the Namaaz and performing it without understanding and it is enough for most of the responsible persons and decision makers here in school.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 1, 2021 at 11:28 am

      Nouman Ali Khan has some intensives on his YouTube channel in bayyinah. He is also doing live sessions in his subscription based program. Sajid Hameed sahab has a 10 day course on his YouTube vhannel that you can access from playlist.

      Then these books:

      کلاسیکل عربی سیکھے کا کورس، ان کتابوں کو اسی ترتیب سے پڑھنا ہے

      عربي زبان كے دس اسباق

      دروس في اللغة العربية لغير الناطقين بها [4 پارٹس ]

      قصص للأطفال كامل كيلاني (مكمل)

      قصص للأطفال عطيہ الأبراشي

      قصص العرب (4 پارٹس مكل) تاليف: محمد احمد جار المولی علي محمد بجاوي اور محمد ابو الفضل ابراهيم

      ديوان الحماسہ للبحتري

      المعلقات السبع

      ديوان امرئ القيس

      ديوان نابغہ ذبياني

      ديوان لبيد بن ربيعہ

      المفضليات

      الاصميعات

      You can also get the Miftah madinah books for free. For vocabulary you can use word to word translations. But ensure that you learn sarf before I would say. The intensives on bayyinah’s YouTube channel are quite good I would say. They are 3 hours long and there’s 40 free sessions. They can be watched at 1.5x speed. Then you can buy the further subscription needed إن شاء الله

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 1, 2021 at 6:16 pm

      @Tamseel @Tamsee Perhaps, learning prayer translation can be given a choice for students to earn extra credit.

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator March 1, 2021 at 11:34 am

    Al-Fatiha and some small surahs are easy to memorize as well as understand. You can teach your students those, and also teach them how how they can make personal connections with God in other parts of the salat.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 1, 2021 at 5:44 pm

      I agree Faisal. Most of the prayer is exactly the same repetition each time

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