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  • خلفاۓ راشدین اور حضرت علی رض۔

    Posted by Muhammad Abdullah on March 17, 2021 at 9:03 am

    جب امام مالک سے پوچھا گیا کہ کون کونسے خلیفہ کا دور خلفاۓ راشدین میں شمار کیا جاتا ہے تو انہوں نے صرف حضرت ابوبکر اور حضرت عمر کا نام لیا اور کچھ توقف کے برد “حضرت عثمان بھی” کہ دیا۔

    بالکل اسی طرح، غامدی صاحب بھی حضرت عمر بن عبالعزیز کا شمار تو کرتے ہیں مگر حضرت علی کے دورِ خلافت کو اُس میں شامل نہیں کرتے۔

    سوال ہے کہ خلیفہِ راشد کی ایسی کیا تعریف ہے جس کے تحت حضرت ابوبکر و عمر و عثمان و عمر بن عبدالعزیز تو آجاتے ہیں مگر حضرت علی نہیں؟

    بشکریہ۔

    Muhammad Abdullah replied 3 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 15 Replies
  • 15 Replies
  • خلفاۓ راشدین اور حضرت علی رض۔

    Muhammad Abdullah updated 3 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 15 Replies
  • Ahsan

    Moderator March 17, 2021 at 9:59 am

    You can watch this video for defination
    Discussion 23325 • Reply 24280

    If what you claim about Imam Malik is ture (as no reference mentioned), then it might be because Hazrat Ali period was full of chaos. Although I disagree with Imam Malik point of view. because there is hadith that caliphs will rule for thrity years (https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4647) so Hazrat Ali period will be included in it.
    Umer bin Abdul Aziz is considered rightly guided because he abolished many tyrant regulations which were enforced by previous rulers.

  • Ahsan

    Moderator March 17, 2021 at 11:29 pm

    Thanks. I will chk them out

  • Muhammad Abdullah

    Member March 26, 2021 at 9:58 pm

    Wondering if this is in the queue to have it answered? Jzk!

    @codename.AJK

    @faisalharoon

  • Umer

    Moderator March 26, 2021 at 10:36 pm

    Since Spotify is not available at my place, please share any other link where Ghamidi Sahab specifically mentions this as his own viewpoint. Because, there are many instances where Ghamidi Sahab has talked about Hazrat Ali (rta) as a Khaleefa-e-Rashid. The only thing he mentions is the chaos and disruption that was caused during his time period right after shadah of Hazrat Usman (rta) and perspective of the other side which lead to wars of Jammal and Saffeen.

    Also Ghamidi Sahab has already defined khalifa-e-Rashid in the link shared by Ahsan Sahab above.

    • Muhammad Abdullah

      Member March 26, 2021 at 11:24 pm

      https://youtu.be/gBuHCzE04Jc?list=PLBlLCVQiApQ1CmGuUXGlkO394sB4_IxJe
      I hope this works for you? Please listen from 10:23 onwards for a minute.Btw Spotify has been released in Pakistan and is usually accessible unless I’m mistakenly assuming the location.
      Jzk!

    • Umer

      Moderator March 26, 2021 at 11:47 pm

      This is a very weak inference that you’re drawing from this lecture. Ghamidi Sahab is not explicitly giving any negative statement. Even the context is totally different. Here he is giving a comparison between Bani-Israel’s mansab-e-shahdah and Bani-Ismael’s, and how they both correlate with each other. Since the comparison was between the best era of both progeny, hence the relevant examples were quoted. Since we all know the era of Hazrat Ali (rta) was full of chaos and civil wars, therefore, his example would’ve been irrelevant here but relevant in the other context, where Bani-Ismael as a progeny stopped being khair-e-ummat at a holistic level.

      P.S. I am not residing in Pakistan. I live in a place where they still use cow’s dung as a fuel source Wink

    • Muhammad Abdullah

      Member March 27, 2021 at 8:22 am

      I highly doubt it is merely a comparison as you mentioned. Maybe it is like that (or maybe not and Ghamidi shb would have some other reasoning but I could be wrong).

      Moreover, how’d you justify Imam Malik’s response which clearly does not have any such comparison at all?

    • Umer

      Moderator March 27, 2021 at 2:03 pm

      Why would do you want me to justify Imam Malik’s response Brother Sweat Smile.

      But on a serious note, since that era was full of chaos and disruption, one can understand the perspective of Imam Malik as well. And also, the moment of Hazrat Ali’s (rta) bayat was in extraordinary circumstances without involvement of Key Leaders of Quraysh. But at the same time, he was next in line to Hazrat Usman (rta). Therefore, it is not a big issue if one is having a different opinion with regards to Khilafat of Hazrat Ali (rta) since ummah was divided in two big chunks.

      In order to put forward a question to Ghamidi Sahab, I will be more the happy to forward it but the question here is not concrete. We cannot simply ask Ghamidi Sahab “do you believe in Khilafat of Hazrat Ali or not”. As it is not a part of any tenet of Islam and secondly, there is no such explicit statement being made by Ghamidi Sahab himself. On the contrary, Ghamidi Sahab has mentioned khilafat of Hazrat Ali (rta) on numerous occasions. I hope you would understand.

    • Muhammad Abdullah

      Member March 27, 2021 at 2:55 pm

      😄 lol, I like the sense of humor and also appreciate you putting efforts, a lot.

      However, I meant if you or Ghamidi shb could elaborate Imam Malik’s point of view since he (Ghamidi shb) was the one explaining about Imam Malik’s life, understanding, and fiqh and he might know that why Imam was hesitant in including even Hazrat Usman’s time as a Khilafat-e-Rashidiya.

      As per my understanding, khilafat-e-rashidiya shouldn’t do anything with the division of ummah as it is about the way to govern, the way to act and react, and the governance way. There were rebels in the era of Hazrat Abu Bakr ra as well so, I don’t understand the reasoning of regarding chaos a cause to not include Hazrat Ali’s khilafat by Imam Malik AND by Ghamidi Shb himself.

      Moreover, I shared Ghamidi shb’s own lecture in which he talks about the best khalifahs and skips Hazrat Ali (notice the subtlety that it is about the personality and not about the time of that personality that Ghamidi shb commented on). I agree that Ghamidi shb speaks highly of Hazrat Ali’s character, abilities, and services and have done so many times however, this is about the way of Hazrat Ali’s governance, of Hazrat Ali being a Khalifa-e-Rashid that is being discussed here (and in the Meezan lecture where Ghamidi shb skips Hazrat Ali).

    • Muhammad Abdullah

      Member March 27, 2021 at 2:58 pm

      Moreover, the question is NOT, “do you believe in Khilafat of Hazrat Ali or not”

      Rather it is “When talking about Khilafat-e-Rashidiya, you skipped Hazrat Ali but included Hazrat Umar bin Abdul Aziz, who cam many years later. Similarly, imam Malik also did not include Hazrat Ali as a Khalifa-e-Rashid. What reasonings could there be?”

    • Umer

      Moderator March 28, 2021 at 8:12 am

      I think I have already added context of Ghamidi Sahab’s video into the discussion. Although I do not agree with the conclusion you’re drawing from this video, but still I will try to forward this as a Question.

      But once again, please listen to comments of Ghamidi Sahab once again in the same video, he is clearly giving a comparison of best times of Bani-Israel with that of Bani-Ismael, and era of Hazrat Ali (rta) was not clearly the best era, starting from Shahdah of Hazrat Usman (rta), to controversy during his Bayat, civil wars during all his era, division of Muslims and ultimately His Shahdah.

    • Muhammad Abdullah

      Member April 20, 2021 at 6:16 pm

      Just checking in if there has been any update on this?

      Jzk!

  • $ohail T@hir

    Moderator March 28, 2021 at 11:05 am

    what does it mean by rightly guided? guided by who? on all matters? why only four and not 10 or two?

    • Muhammad Abdullah

      Member April 20, 2021 at 6:18 pm

      I doubt there has been any specific number and also I won’t use the word of rightly guided but those who have spent valuable time and learnt Islam in a way that they could be deemed fit for governance. After all they are human and not prophet/messenger.

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