April 3, 2021 at 12:24 pm
If the purpose of marriage is to establish commitment to raise children well, why physical relationship between unmarried is prohibitted; especially now a days when conception can be completely avoided?
I do not see any logical reason why, except to follow Allah’s commandment and to prove one’s faith in Allah…pretty much the same goal as fasting. But, avoiding physical relationship is an extremely difficult test these days when the culture has shifted to marriage in late 20s or 30s.
April 3, 2021 at 12:38 pm
Could it be possible that translation of Quran is referring to adultry (married person having physical relationship with other than the spouse)
There was a time when having a picture or tv in the house was considered sacrilegious as these things may lead someone to Shirk. Now these things are accepted in religion by almost all scholars. Could it be that in a few decades, scholar will change their mind on the topic and start accepting premarital relationships?
April 4, 2021 at 3:50 am
It is not only about protecting accidental birth of a child. It is to protect the overall sanctity of institution of the marriage. Just like intoxication and gambling, no room can be left for physical relationships out of wedlock because of its affect on the overall institution of marriage, in terms of lower threshold of loyalty, addiction with extramarital affairs and lower regard for the institution of marriage itself. And these affects do not stay to a single person, they permeate through the overall fabric of the society.
Please see for details:
April 4, 2021 at 7:27 am
Thank you Umer for your response.
FYI, The first video link you shared doesn’t work in the US.
I wholeheartedly agree with your statement. Although Islam is a logical religion and most of the commandments are for the benefit of people in this world, still I believe there is no need to always have or to find a logical reasoning first to follow Allah’s commandment once one believes in Allah, his books and his prophets. We just need to make sure we are understanding Allah’s word correctly and within context.
For argument sake, if marriage is to establish institution of marriage for the benefit of next generation, generally it seems like it is not working well in bringing up a great new generations. So, it may not be the prime reason why extramarital relationships are prohibited.
There has to be some other reason…I wonder what it is?
Also unlike gambling and drinking that cause more serious issues than immorality; I wonder why immorality has been given a status of such a serious sin.
April 4, 2021 at 5:52 pm
Brother Umer. The new link works , but the video did not add any new info. Basically Ghamidi Sahib states that extramarital relationship is prohibitted for the sake of protecting the next generation. As I stated with examples, this does not seem to be the prime reason for prohibition.
April 4, 2021 at 8:31 am
Just referring to the answer posted under the other thread.
I hope this explains?
April 4, 2021 at 11:01 am
Thank you Muhammad. It makes more sense. Just thinking why extramarital relationships may be such a serious offense. Perhaps a person is being held partly responsible for the sins of all the following generations starting from the person who didn’t focus on raising his offsprings well due to extramarital relationships.
But if that is the case, others who do not focus on raising their offsprings well for other reasons should be equally guilty.
If they are equally guity somehow, then how do we explain prophet Nuh’s son not being raised well in prophet’s 950 year lifespan.
At the end, I come to conclusion that not allowing extramarital relationship in Islam is for some other bigger reason, not to raise children better.
Perhaps it is the biggest test for humans to judge the strength of their belief in Allah.
April 4, 2021 at 11:59 am
Ummm, I don’t think that was the implication there or at least it was not meant to be.
The reasoning, to reiterate, of disallowing extramarital affairs (after marriage) is to have firm grounds in one’s own home. That brings the sense of responsibility and ownership towards your own home and family members (your wife/wives and children). Going other places (once married), clearly eradicates this characteristic from a person, from the roots. Second thing is what if a child birth happens as a result of this kind of union? This takes us back to the original concern of the life of that child being ruined (almost certainly) as no one would like to claim the ownership and responsibility of raising that child as it was not wanted at the very first place.
Of course, as you said, there could be other reasons as well that I or others are missing but this one does have significant importance.
April 4, 2021 at 2:54 pm
Brother Muhammad, I still think firm roots in the family is not the prime reason. Think about people with multiple wives, people too busy with business or hobbies, people not concerned with raising children well. In olden times people used to travel for months and years at a time. All these are as distracting from family life as someone with extramarital relationships.
April 4, 2021 at 3:15 pm
Distraction is one thing, not owning a responsibility is another. With businesses, jobs etc, you are doing these because you own the responsibility of your family and you have to do this to provide them bread and butter. It’d be very unfair to call it a distraction from the family. Again, exceptions exist where people are just not putting enough efforts deliberately to raise their children as well as they can but these are only exceptions.
Nikah is a binding that from now onwards we are entering into a pact according to which (generally) man is responsible to provide bread and butter to the family and that they’d, with all their honesty, be raising a new generation. With extramarital affair, this pact is shattered, this honesty is no more, and the sense of ownership of a family fades away. It is not merely a distraction!
April 4, 2021 at 5:32 pm
Brother Muhammad from your answer it sounds like marriage commitment is only giving your name and financial support and that would be sufficient to raise children better. The underlying reason premarital relationships are stated to be prohibited because it destroys family fabric and degrades quality of next generation. This would require not only that a married person is not involved in extramarital relationship but also be there on day to day basis involved in raising and guiding children.
April 4, 2021 at 7:54 pm
I couldn’t agree more to your point. Maybe I couldn’t explain better but yeah, I am of the very same view. I was merely saying that some professions, some jobs demand you to be outside for most of the time of the day. A laborer in Pakistan HAS to spend dawn to dusk to provide otherwise if he only goes for half day, he won’t be able to feed his children let alone raising them. It eventually boils down to how much you can/should do and how much you are doing.
April 4, 2021 at 3:25 pm
Just imagine your thirteen years old daughter comes home after having sex with her classmate.
Wouldn’t she loose her innocence, her “hiya”, and chances are that she may become pregnant and that the child would probably never know who was his father.
Imagine you sister come after having sex with her boyfriend and becomes pregnant, and your mother has set a date for her marriage in next six months.
Imagine your mother….
Islam is a religion of modesty and submission to Allah, which makes humans a better than animals.
April 4, 2021 at 5:22 pm
Brother Munnoo, your are thinking from your cultural and religious perspective. Some other cultures do not feel or think this way.
Anyhow, this is not the point. None of us here is supporting that premarital relationships is ok.
We are just trying to understand why Allah prohibited it and why it is such an extreme sin. Is it prohibited because it destroys a family and creates issues with raising next generation or is there another higher purpose or is it just that Allah wants to test us to see who loves and believes him more.
Please read through the post and share your thoughts.
April 4, 2021 at 6:09 pm
I think that premarital sex is a fahisha. I believe there have been some research projects related to how even westerners did not like the first time they did it but then over time became fine with it.
However a question does arise. How does the institution of marriage in Islam, which has given no laws to punish the man if he does not provide, give a stronger base for a child than a non marital relationship? Many children are born out of wedlock nowadays and are fine.
If the issue is truly that the child has to have a safe place to be brought up (and if Ghamidi sahab’s narrative is correct) why has the Quran not listed any punishments for a man who doesn’t spend on his wife.
Where does it say in the Quran that a man must spend on his wife and that the wife doesn’t have to do anything and that if the husband doesn’t uphold this responsibility then he is doing something wrong. All I need is the ayah
April 4, 2021 at 7:50 pm
1) Many children are born out of wedlock. I highly doubt if that actually is “many” or very few when taken the statistics across the world.
2) Quran does mention the responsibility of man to be the provider however, it is understood that the lack of that responsibility would be questionable and since it is related to Huqooq-ul-ibaad, it has to be forgone by the concerned people before seeking forgiveness from Allah.
I’d agree that its punishment is not specifically mentioned however, it is just like the punishment of many other mandatory affairs is absent in the Quran (for skipping fard namaz, skipping fast, getting intoxicated etc)
April 4, 2021 at 8:10 pm
Ahmad, Westerners did not like it because they were more religious a few decades ago. Now they are almost atheists in practical sense.
On the point that Islam doesn’t suggest hell or severe punishment to a person not providing financially or actively participating in raising children as compared to calling extramarital relationship a grave sin. This distinction lead me to believe that not allowing extramarital relationship is not primarily because Allah wants to preserve a family a raise children well, but some other higher purpose, or merely a test… Just like requiring fasting.
I think if government could set well funded institutions with qualified child specialists, nutritionist, educators and well educated religious scholars, they would have raised children better than most parents do now a days.
April 13, 2021 at 8:29 am
I feel like we did not come to conclusion on this conversation.
Does my argument carry weight that preserving family is not the primary reason why Allah called premarital and/or extramarital relationships a grave sin and as per Ghamidi sahibs point of view.
If this was the case, Allah would have called other similar acts that destroy a family to be grave sins too; such as not financially supporting a family, abusing a family, not giving proper time and effort in raising and educating children.
April 13, 2021 at 9:10 am
Unsure what’s the conclusion but I am more in the lines of understanding it as a matter of putting boundaries to uphold the system of a family. As you might have heard from Ghamidi shb and probably discussed above, “Actual limitation of zina comes when you get married, not before, that is only as a precautionary measure and is haraam even before due to that” It clearly gives the impression that once you marry, that is your family and your physical relationship needs be within the bounds. You cannot go freely and have a kid (as a result of your relationship) with someone else out of wedlock because you won’t consider yourself a responsible person for raising that child who was born unwanted. Hence, the relationship needs be within the limits, the results of which you can OWN. Which exactly means all the following responsibility that you mentioned (raising well, educating, feeding etc).
Since the common problem is to limit that desire of relationship, only that is being targeted and not the very uncommon thing of not raising children well. It may happen 1400 years ago and may happen now that some parents be negligible towards these duties however, these are still exceptions and even when asked they’d probably own their mistakes. So, the point is the responsibilities that you are talking about are well understood and so is the result of not fulfilling them just like the fard namaz/fast etc is understood and not fulfilling them is committing a sin is well understood but that is nowhere mentioned in Quran because there’s no need to.
April 13, 2021 at 10:16 am
Thank you Muhammad for such an excellent and comprehensive reply.
I am still left wondering why consequences for extramarital relation could be eternal hell, but not for neglecting you family. So the two the acts with the same consequences but extremely different punishment. Can you please expand on that.
April 13, 2021 at 10:26 am
Because it is Allah’s order. Allah ordered Satan to bow to Adam and he refused, he will get eternal punishment.
Allah orders not to do SHIRK, if somebody does it and dies without repentance… Eternal hell.
Similarly, AllAh orders to not to have extramarital relationship. Those disobey will be punished…
April 13, 2021 at 10:45 am
I agree with you 100 percent brother Munnoo. I am tryining to disprove Ghamidi Sahibs statement that extramarital relationship is primarily prohibitted to preserve family. My point is that it is primarily prohibited because Allah said so. An indirect or secondary consideration may be to preserve family. Although just because parents do not have extramarital relationship doesn’t guarantee the children will be raised well.
April 13, 2021 at 10:32 am
Nadeem shb, you mentioned “extremely different punishment”; can you please share what is the punishment of neglecting the family?
April 13, 2021 at 10:36 am
No mention, I assume means not a grave sin.
April 13, 2021 at 10:47 am
No mention, agree; hypothesis of not a grave sin, humbly disagree.
Lack of presence does not deny the existence. I kept repeating the examples of some fard acts and would also include Zakat here and would reiterate; Is not giving Zakat a sin or not? Is it punishable or not? Similarly so many other obligatory examples the neglecting of which is clearly a sin, are not mentioned in the Quran because (as I understand it) there was no need to. Zina was/is the most toughest of the desire to refrain from unlike not raising children well. That is why only the most relevant problem was mentioned with its punishment. I am probably unable to put the fact in light but would try again “The number of People who commit (or can commit) Zina is in abundance vs. the number of people who do not raise their children well.” In fact, the latter one is almost negligible when observed. Even the dullest of parents at least try to have some bread n butter for their family. Those who do not even do that might be one in a million probably. BUT even then, they KNOW (in their nature) that this IS A GRAVE SIN.
April 13, 2021 at 10:56 am
Brother Muhammad. Please see my responses to Brother Munnoo above.
I agree with most of yout statement except one. Not mentioning something in Quran actually means it is not a grave sin. Grave sins with severe consequences are specifically stated many times over. All other grave sins are lumped into Fasad and oppression of people.
April 13, 2021 at 11:04 am
Let me take the word (grave) back.
I humbly disagree with the statement “just because Allah said so.”
Could you please share a single Hukam from Quran for which Allah does not mention the reasoning of that hukam (and it is not evident on its own either)?
Even for the Huqooq of Allah, which we believe that if missed, could be forgiven by His mercy, Allah mentions the reasoning (take example of Namaz, of Roza) and pertaining to a Grave Sin, saying “just because Allah said” seems illogical to me as the reasoning IS mentioned before that ayah (through inference) and after that ayah.
April 13, 2021 at 12:05 pm
Brother Muhammad, everything in this World has advantages and disadvantages. Just because there is a benefit stated it doesn’t mean that is the primary and the only reason. (In this case Allah did not say that he prohibited it to preserve family. This is Ghamidi sahibs own conclusion)
The point is that it does not seem like a logical conclusion that prohibitting extramarital relationships is to preserve family. The primary reason could be something else. It could be another reason. If we have not discovered the reason yet, then the only reason sufficient for me is that Allah said so.
There are numerous things in Quran that we accept without reasoning or benefits, just because Allah said so. Just because of our belief in Allah.