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  • Praying In Ahmadiyya Mosque

    Faisal Haroon updated 3 years, 3 months ago 7 Members · 17 Replies
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator July 8, 2020 at 4:41 pm

    I have never had the opportunity to go inside an Ahmadiya mosque, but in my knowledge Ahmadiya prayer is not any different than our prayer, and they make the prayer to the same God that we pray to. What do you think might be wrong in praying in their mosque, especially if other mosques are too far away from you?

    • Iftikhar Ali

      Member July 8, 2020 at 11:36 pm

      Pros:

      1. I am giving due respect to a mosque

      2. Even if it was just a place of worship it is still entitled to respect inferred from Surah Haj Ayat 40

      3. I am promoting mutual tolerance. I would rather replace ‘tolerance’ with ‘disagree with respect ‘

      4. I am reaching out to those who might have questions I could answer or investigate

      5. I teach myself ‘its all about Allah and his remembrance when I see a mosque

      Cons:

      1. I might attract negative or hostile reaction as I assume its a close knit community

      2. I will be exposed to their preaching, reasoning and persuasion.

      3. I and my friends and family especially young people may develop soft corner for the belief I do not share with Ahmadiyya community, especially those who will never have discussion with me for my choice to go to this mosque. Or on the flip side get weirded out

      4. Our children are already getting Ahmadiyya books from school libraries in the UK

      5. Constantly feeling I am among those who have a belief which is obviously ‘kufria’ and the fact this community considers non-Ahmadis, less of a muslim.

      If I choose another mosque then every other mosque has some differeing views I may disagree; hence shying away from such a mosque I waver from the conviction that

      ‘mosques are for Allah the almighty’.

  • $ohail T@hir

    Moderator July 8, 2020 at 5:30 pm

    “I have no liking for it”, would be my personal stance here.

    Abdullah b. ‘Abbas reported: I and Khalid b. Walid went to the apartment of Maimuna along with Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam), and there was presented to him a roasted lizard. Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) stretched his hand towards It, whereupon some of the women who had been in the house of Maimuna said: Inform Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) what he intends to eat. Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) lifted his hand. I said: Messenger of Allaah, Is it forbidden? He said: No. It is not found in the land of my people, and I feel that I have no liking for it. Khalid said: I then chewed and ate it, while, Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) was looking (at me).

  • Umer

    Moderator July 9, 2020 at 12:26 am

    Asslamualikum Iftikhar sb.

    Your concerns are genuine and it’s better that we discuss them out together as a community. In that regard, I would like to add a few things in response to your pros and cons. All of this on the premise that we agree there is nothing wrong from a religious standpoint on praying in Ahmediya Mosque.

    According to my knowledge and experience, Ahmediya community is more tolerant than our regular Muslim community. I think its your own community that you should be worried about more than Ahmediya. It’s better if you take you close friends and family in confidence first in order to avoid any unexpected reaction from them at some later point.

    You shouldn’t be afraid of getting persuaded by their arguments, you should be aware of Quranic perspective on finality of prophethood. It’s better to refer to Quran for guidance so that you should be confident about what’s Quran’s perspective about this issue. And we should be open to listen to any argument, whether it be from Ahmediya people or any other sect of Muslims for that matter. God has given us aqal and Quran, we can use them both to see any argument’s viability. In my experience, if you’re a true seeker of truth, with time, God paves way for you to reach to the truth as long as you don’t let any bias and prejudice influence your search for truth. When you study Quran by considering it as a Mizan & Furqan of religion, it will purge out everything non-consistent with its message. It is also better to acquaint your children with the Quran & Sunnah, and basic tenets of how to understand them. And when you feel the time is right, try to make them rationally and reasonably understand as to why you think Ahmediya’s understanding is wrong and present your arguments logically.

    For Quranic perspective on finality of prophethood and the underlying arguments, please refer to the following thread.

    Discussion 4625

  • Iftikhar Ali

    Member July 9, 2020 at 9:45 am

    Thank you Umer

    You have alluded to the gist of the matter in the opening para of your reply. We need to discuss premise first.

    If I see the Ahmadiyyah opinion an effort to undermine mainstream beliefs, would it be justified to consider this mosque as ‘masjid e zarrar’?

    ‘masjid

    According to the Islamic tradition, Muhammad was asked to lead prayer there but received a revelation (mentioned in the Qur’anic verses 9:107 and 9:110) in consequence of which the mosque was destroyed by fire. Hencerforth, it was known as the Mosque of Opposition.

    وَالَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا مَسْجِدًا ضِرَارًا وَكُفْرًا وَتَفْرِيقًا بَيْنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَإِرْصَادًا لِّمَنْ حَارَبَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ مِن قَبْلُ ۚ وَلَيَحْلِفُنَّ إِنْ أَرَدْنَا إِلَّا الْحُسْنَىٰ ۖ وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّهُمْ لَكَاذِبُونَ – 9:107

    لَا تَقُمْ فِيهِ أَبَدًا ۚ لَّمَسْجِدٌ أُسِّسَ عَلَى التَّقْوَىٰ مِنْ أَوَّلِ يَوْمٍ أَحَقُّ أَن تَقُومَ فِيهِ ۚ فِيهِ رِجَالٌ يُحِبُّونَ أَن يَتَطَهَّرُوا ۚ وَاللَّهُ يُحِبُّ الْمُطَّهِّرِينَ – 9:108

    أَفَمَنْ أَسَّسَ بُنْيَانَهُ عَلَىٰ تَقْوَىٰ مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانٍ خَيْرٌ أَم مَّنْ أَسَّسَ بُنْيَانَهُ عَلَىٰ شَفَا جُرُفٍ هَارٍ فَانْهَارَ بِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ ۗ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ – 9:109

    لَا يَزَالُ بُنْيَانُهُمُ الَّذِي بَنَوْا رِيبَةً فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ إِلَّا أَن تَقَطَّعَ قُلُوبُهُمْ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ – 9:110

    And [there are] those [hypocrites] who took for themselves a mosque for causing harm and disbelief and division among the believers and as a station for whoever had warred against Allah and His Messenger before. And they will surely swear, “We intended only the best.” And Allah testifies that indeed they are liars.

    Do not stand [for prayer] within it – ever. A mosque founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy for you to stand in. Within it are men who love to purify themselves; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.

    Then is one who laid the foundation of his building on righteousness [with fear] from Allah and [seeking] His approval better or one who laid the foundation of his building on the edge of a bank about to collapse, so it collapsed with him into the fire of Hell? And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.

    Their building which they built will not cease to be a [cause of] skepticism in their hearts until their hearts are stopped. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

    q1. Is the context or these ayahs correct?

    q2. Who are being addressed?

    q3. Is this instruction limited to the time of the prophet as part of ongoing hide and seek of hypocrites or pretend believers?

    q4. Can we see this issue in the light of these verses?

  • Umer

    Moderator July 9, 2020 at 2:20 pm

    These verses are definitely addressing the Munafiqeen (hypocrites) of Prophet’s time; but these verses can’t be applied to Ahmediya community or to any people for that matter because of the following reasons.

    1) Chapter 9 (Surah Tauba) of Quran was revealed in the final stage of Prophet’s dawah after ‘completion of proof’ (Ittemam-e-Hujjat) was done by the Prophet on all the intended parties (People of the book, Hypocrites, Pagans of Mecca). It is a Surah of God’s wrath and final punishment imposed on deniers of the Prophet. Everything commanded in this Surah is under direct revelation and supervision of God. In the absence of divine revelation, we have no way of knowing what actually lies in a person’s heart or whether he/she has denied the truth intentionally.

    2) It would be unfair to equate the hypocrites of that time with the people in Ahmediya community. Ahmedi people have their beliefs all spelled out quite openly in public, they are not hiding anything or wearing any masquerade in order to hide their beliefs or with the intention to hurt other Muslims. Most of the times when they hide their identity, its mostly to safeguard themselves from religious persecution imposed on them by the rest of the Muslim community.

    3) Even if they consider Non-Ahmediya as Non-Muslims or the ones astray, still they don’t persecute other Muslims, neither do they impose their beliefs on others. We think this is not anyone’s domain to declare any other sect Non-Muslim. So we don’t give verdict on them or any other sect for that matter, despite the fact they do. (In reality, not even a single sect of Muslims is safe from this religious activism. Every major Muslim sect has declared other sect(s) Non-Muslims / Apostate etc. in one way or another.

    Therefore, I would humbly request you to not go down that road where all our sects have gone already and now no single sect is safe from any other sect. If it were an option, you should prefer to go to a mosque of your own choosing to experience a complete peace of mind and peace of soul. Since we are talking about accentuating circumstances, therefore I see no reason to stop you from going to any mosque, of any sect just to bow down to Allah. You are responsible for your prayer only, not for those of others; not even for the imam leading the prayer.

  • Iftikhar Ali

    Member July 9, 2020 at 4:06 pm

    Thank you Umer for a detailed low down; this leads me to following inquiry

    So we cannot apply this rule to any place of worship in our times. Hypocrites were hiding their true intentions vs a group having proven kufriah belief, which will clearly mislead some mainstream muslims, so how can their declared place of worship should not be seen in this light, as here divine revelation is obviously not needed.

    Is it because any group/sect/community who is not taking actions to mislead mainstream muslims or is it because muslims of our times are not burdened with anzaar in the style of a prophet? The group under discussion actively preach their kufriah faith.


    Related further query I have is why I can or can’t pray in a church. But lets further our discussion on a muslim sect first.

    • Umer

      Moderator July 10, 2020 at 2:05 am

      Thank you Iftikhar Sahab for initiating and engaging in this dialogue. It is helping me as well to further broaden my horizon of thinking. It’s a great learning opportunity for me as well.

      Coming to the issue at hand; “is it because muslims of our times are not burdened with anzaar in the style of a prophet?”, this is one important consideration. Dawah of Prophet (especially that of a Rasul) is different than Dawah responsibilities for an ordinary Muslim. In case of a Rasul, Prophet needs to complete proof of truth on His people and afterwards, God’s wrath (Azaab) is imposed on the ones who denied the truth intentionally. For us Muslims, who are not preachers / scholars, we are only burdened with the responsibility of urging people in our immediate sphere to do the right, to inform them what is right and to advice them with utmost sincerity as to refrain from the wrong [1].

      Coming back to the question of intentions, what way do we have of knowing that people within Ahmediya community are intentionally denying the true message and it’s not a matter of understanding / inadvertent wrong understanding? Why are we limiting the application of hypocrites to Ahmediya people only? Why not be fair about it then, why not apply the same principles on major Muslim sects who are stern followers of Sufism and express those Kufria beliefs (some of them tantamount to Shirk) blatantly and openly? [2]

      If are to open this door of Takfeer on people who claim to be Muslim, chaos will ensue. Currently we are being unfair and dishonest to ourselves by marginalizing only Ahmediya community while a majority of us hold the same views, even worse at times under the blanket of Tasawwuf. Let’s be honest about it.

      As a principle, I believe, the ones who are claiming to be Muslims, we have no right to judge anyone’s intention and we have no right to declare anyone Kafir. We will discuss differing interpretations of understanding and point out the mistakes in their ideology. Both Sufism and Ahmediya beliefs are against the basic teachings of Islam and are kufria in their very nature, but they present their argument from Muslim scriptures, at least that’s what they try and claim, so only rational approach is to point toward mistakes of their interpretations with logical arguments from the very scriptures. This is the only way to achiever inter-sect harmony and toward removing impediments for true seekers of truth from every sect to easily search the truth.

      _____________________________

      [1]

      وَالْعَصْرِ إِنَّ الْإِنسَانَ لَفِي خُسْرٍ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ (١٠٣: ١-٣)

      Time bears witness that these people shall definitely be in a state of loss. Yes! except those who accepted faith and did righteous deeds and exhorted one another to the truth and exhorted one another to remain steadfast on it. (103:1-3)

      It is evident from the nature and scope of this preaching as mentioned in these verses that the preacher and the preached are not distinct from another. Every person at all times acts as a preacher as well as an addressee to this preaching. The word used by the Quran in this regard is تَوَاصَوْا which means “to urge one another”. This responsibility should be discharged by a father towards his son and a son towards his father, a husband towards his wife and a wife towards her husband, a brother towards his sister and a sister towards her brother, a friend towards his friend and a neighbour towards his neighbour – in short, a person should discharge it towards every person who has an immediate relation with him. When he sees that someone among them has adopted an attitude which is contrary to the truth, he should try to urge him according to his knowledge, capacity and ability to mend his ways. It is quite possible that while at one time of the day we deliver some truth to a person, and at another time, he does this very service to us. Today, we may urge a person to the right way and tomorrow that person might urge us to the same. In short, a Muslim should keep discharging this duty in his immediate circle whenever he gets the opportunity.

      Urging one another to the truth and urging one another to remain steadfast on it has also been referred to as أَمَر بِالْمَعْرُوفِ and نهَِي عَنِ المُنْكَر i.e urging people to whatever sense and human nature call as good and forbidding them from what sense and human nature call as evil. These two expressions are only a positive and negative statement of what is referred to in Surah Asr’s last verse quoted above. The Quran says:

      وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتُ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ (٧١:٩)

      And true believers, both men and women, are friends to one another. They urge one another to what is good and forbid what is evil. (9:71)

      The sphere of this preaching as is evident from the words “urging one another to the truth” is one’s immediate surroundings. A person is required to do this duty among his family, relatives and friends. It is his obligation towards people with whom he lives and spends time and works with and who come into his contact because of his various involvements that they be the addressees of this preaching. This obligation will only stand fulfilled if it is discharged in this sphere. It should not be the case that these rightful beneficiaries of his preaching be deprived of it, while people belonging to other areas and countries become its recipients. The Almighty and His Prophet (sws) have not required of him to leave his immediate surroundings and start this activity outside it.

      Moreover, it is also essential that his preaching be directed from the nearest to the next, and a person should foremost address his family members and try to save them from the Fire of Hell. He must be aware of the fact that if he went after others while leaving aside these immediate people who might be deep in evil, then in spite of all his efforts, he may end up at the losing end in the Hereafter:

      يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَهْلِيكُمْ نَارًا وَقُودُهَا النَّاسُ وَالْحِجَارَةُ عَلَيْهَا مَلَائِكَةٌ غِلَاظٌ شِدَادٌ لَا يَعْصُونَ اللَّهَ مَا أَمَرَهُمْ وَيَفْعَلُونَ مَا يُؤْمَرُونَ (٦:٦٦)

      Believers! protect yourselves and your kindred from a Fire fuelled with these men and these stones [they worshipped]. In charge of it will be stern and mighty angels who never disobey God’s directive and promptly do what they are told. (66:6)

      Here, this should also remain clear that within one’s immediate sphere there exists a sphere in which a person possesses authority. In a family system, a person often has two capacities: he is a father and he is a husband. As per the dictates of common sense and human nature, a person has authority in these two spheres. It is because of this authority that a person in his capacities of a husband and a father is responsible for the affairs of his wife and children respectively.

      [2] For details, you can refer to the following discussion thread:

      Discussion 4851

  • Iftikhar Ali

    Member July 10, 2020 at 7:09 am

    Thank you for sharing your views so far.

    In order to address all aspects of the issue that nags me I want to ask how would I justify the following.

    1. I understand companions of the prophet invaded the claimant of prophet-hood.

    2. How I can compare a sect of islam ie barelvi, salfi etc with followers of a slef-claimed prophet

    Kindly share your thoughts

    • Umer

      Moderator July 10, 2020 at 11:28 am

      1) Yes, they did went on war with claimants of prophethood. There were 3,4 different people who claimed prophethood and a couple of them did when Prophet was even alive. The companions also waged war against apostates, deniers of Zakah, against Persian and Roman empires. By that logic, we should start war with people of any such category living in today’s time and invade any other Non-Muslim country whenever we get enough resources and power to do so (there’s quite an astonishing number of Muslim clerics who actually advocate this approach based on Sahaba’s (Companions) actions).

      However, I see all those invasions, wars waged against apostates and claimants of prophethood falling under that specific law of completion of proof (ittemam-e-Hujjat). All of this was done under directions from the Quran & the Prophet. And its application came to an end after the end of Sahaba’s era. For details on law of Completion of proof please refer to the following thread:

      Discussion 1102

      2) Should we have a problem with only a person claiming to be a prophet after prophet Muhammad (sws) or in all honesty, we should have a problem with anyone questioning and blatantly defying any essential part of our belief system. Just because Sufism doesn’t use the word prophet with them, doesn’t mean that their statements should experience any less scrutiny from a true Muslim. Their transgressions are beyond the transgressions committed by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani (Both did trangress), both in scope of beliefs and in magnitude of their expression as well. So where do we want to draw the line? Isn’t it merely a line of comfort for us? Shouldn’t we be stretching further towards the line of truth that has been blurred by our constant bias and brain washing?

      As far as Brelvi and Deo-Baandi sects are concerned, they are both proponents of Tasawwuf in its very essence; and they makeup a vast majority of Muslim ummah. So in all fairness, I will never use a different yardstick to judge people effectively belonging to the same community. None of them is kafir, none of them intentionally committed such transgressions; many of them are following a particular understanding of a tenet of Islam just because they were told so. It is our job to present our point of view to them, so that instead of repelling them, we should provide them with an alternative, so that they should know that there is another path for them as well and seekers of truth will eventually find the truth.

      In the end, I would like to draw your attention to the following verses of The Holy Quran:

      وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُوْدُ عُزَيْرٌ ابْنُ اللّهِ وَقَالَتْ النَّصَارَى الْمَسِيْحُ ابْنُ اللّهِ ذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُم بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ يُضَاهِؤُوْنَ قَوْلَ الَّذِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا مِنْ قَبْلُ قَاتَلَهُمُ اللّهُ أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُوْنَ. اتَّخَذُوْا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِّن دُوْنِ اللّهِ وَالْمَسِيْحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَمَا أُمِرُوْا إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُوْا إِلَهًا وَاحِدًا لَّا إِلَهَ إِلَّا هُوَ سُبْحَانَهُ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُوْنَ. يُرِيدُوْنَ أَن يُطْفِؤُوْا نُوْرَ اللّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّهُ إِلَّا أَنْ يُتِمَّ نُوْرَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُوْنَ. هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُوْلَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِيْنِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّيْنِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُوْنَ.

      [Their religion is only that] the Jews say that Uzayr is the son of God and the Nazarenes say that that the Messiah is the son of God. These are but words of their mouths. They are saying the same words as the disbelievers before them. The curse of God be on them. From where do they turn away. They have made their scholars and their rabbis as their Lord besides God and Jesus, son of Mary, as well even though they had been asked to worship one God only. There is no god except Him. He is exalted above the partners they associate with Him. They want to extinguish this light of God with the blows of their mouths and God has decided to complete His light, however much these disbelievers may dislike it. It is He Who has sent his rasul with guidance and the religion of truth that he may make it sovereign over all religions [of this land], even though the Idolaters may detest this. (9: 30-33)

      The reason why I pointed this out is the fact that Quran clearly calls this particular belief of Christians as a deed of Kufar, yet when a group of Christians from Najraan visited Prophet (sws) in Prophet’s mosque and asked to be excused for some time just so they can pray to God. The Prophet in response didn’t kick them out of the mosque just because their beliefs are Kufria, He in fact urged them to pray in the Mosque as it is a place for worship to the same God they both believe in. I think we should follow Prophet’s Uswa (role model) of tolerance and acceptability in normal circumstances.

    • Khurram

      Member March 15, 2021 at 12:30 am

      Why are these sensitive issues being addressed by moderators on this forum ?? People are being misguided by inconclusive and liberal approach of the moderators .. a high profile scholar should address these issues.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 15, 2021 at 1:07 am

      If you have an objective disagreement, please state clearly what it is. Moderators are not pulling responses out of thin air – they have spent decades in understanding these things by studying and understanding the Quran as well as Ghamidi sahab’s approach. In most cases they also share relevant resources for the basis of their understanding. In the Farahi school things are not accepted or rejected on the basis of their association to a high profile scholar – they’re analyzed on the basis of evidence.

  • Iftikhar Ali

    Member July 10, 2020 at 3:00 pm

    Thank you for the continued discourse and your valuable time and effort to all.

    For now I understand that it is ok to pray in any mosque belonging to any sect including Ahmadiyyah Mosque because they say they are muslims.

    Further reasons include:

    1. Haq-e-Takfeer is with either prophet or Allah

    2. Actions of Sahabah were bound by rule of ‘Itmam e Hujjah’

    3. Mosques are for Allah and Allah only

    4. Joining any congregation salah is permissible

    I would invite any further points you may thing is worth exploring to establish the premise. ‘ Dos and Don’ts’ might be the next logical avenue to venture into.

    • Umer

      Moderator July 11, 2020 at 12:49 am

      Yes, you’ve summed up my points in a well sorted manner. Thank you.

      You’re free to critique these points and we can discuss them further or we can move to the next phase of discussion. Consider your ease please.

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor March 14, 2021 at 8:26 pm

    If Christians pray the ritual salah could we pray behind them in a church? After all they are also Muslims. What about jews in a synagogue?

    It just seems incorrect that the Imaam of a prayer be someone who you believe is doing shirk.

    I don’t know how the fiqh of congregational salah is around this matter. If a Hindu chooses to do this congregational prayer would we be allowed to since what I’m getting the impression of is that each person is just praying his own salah and eg if the Imaam breaks wudu in salah then another person just stands up and carries on

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 14, 2021 at 9:08 pm

      Ahmadis are not doing shirk, but I would not like to pray where people are against our fundamental beliefs.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 14, 2021 at 9:09 pm

      Yes but would we then pray behind Christians or Jews and just say our own Quran because they are also Muslims and it seems that salah is just a congregational act but everyone does their own thing kind of

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