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  • How Sunnah Is Determined In View Of Classical Jurists

    Posted by Saddamhusen Saiyed on May 14, 2022 at 10:27 am

    I have seen a lot of videos on sunnah and hadith of ghamidi sahab but I have still some doubts

    He says that sunnah is acquired from amali tawatur and ijma of muslims and from akhbar-e-ahad as well

    Then what is the difference then most other sects of present times are also doing the same if they say that beard or keeping your pajama above ankles are sunnah then they are also acquiring it from akhbar-e-ahad…

    Furthermore Ghamidi sahab says even if we didn’t have akhbar-e ahad it would not have altered our Deen, so if sunnah which is one of the sources of the Deen is also acquired from akhbar-e-ahad then how can we conclude this that without akhbare ahad also Deen would have remained same…

    My another question is about the book of islahi sahab manadi tadabbure hadith of which I have attached pics…there in the first paragraph he says that sunnah is transmitted by tawatur of muslim ummah starting from rasulllah saw to us….and in the concluding para he asserts that tawatur of khulafae rashedin and sahabi only should be considered as others may b bidati please clarify whether I misunderstood something…and if tawatur of sahabis only have to be considered then again we are dependent on akhbare ahad…

    Umer replied 1 year, 6 months ago 2 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • How Sunnah Is Determined In View Of Classical Jurists

    Umer updated 1 year, 6 months ago 2 Members · 8 Replies
  • Umer

    Moderator May 14, 2022 at 10:56 am

    Sunnah is not determined from Akhbar-i-Ahad; there seems to be some misunderstanding in understanding Ghamidi Sahab’s point in this regard.

    Please refer to the following response which covers the topic of Sunnah comprehensively:

    Discussion 50126 • Reply 50134

  • Saddamhusen Saiyed

    Member May 14, 2022 at 11:35 am

    Thanks for the prompt response..i will surely go through it and get back to you sir if any questions are still there

    Meanwhile can u look at the second part of question regarding imam islahi sahab s book? Whether i misunderstood something

    • Umer

      Moderator May 14, 2022 at 10:05 pm

      I didn’t respond to that part because once you understand the concept of Sunnah then second part of your question will stand answered itself.

      Just to sum up an important point in this regard:

      – Sunnah is present in Amali tawatur and Ijma of Muslims which can be traced back to Sahaba (who acquired it from Prophet and transmitted it to next generation with their consensus). This is done through books of ‘fiqh‘ which are documenting ijma and tawatur of every time period. Akhbar-i-Ahad do contain application of both Sunnah and Quranic directives, but they are not source for either of them.

    • Saddamhusen Saiyed

      Member May 18, 2022 at 7:56 am

      Thanks a lot sir, that clarified a lot of things for me

      Actually I was mixing the things told by imam Shafi and imam ibne abdul bare with ghamidi sahab.

      So this is what I understood please correct me if I am wrong so these imams believed sunnah is acquired from two sources 1. Ijma and tawatur 2.akhbare ahad whereas islahi sahab ghamidi sahab believe in first part only

      And we receive sunnah from ijma and tawatur of ummah through generations but to ascertain the authenticity it should be traceable to ijma and tawatur of sahabis and we can do this by books of fiqh.

      So won’t we use the all the ilm available to us of this ummah to trace back??

      Further if we find something which is in practice through generations but if it’s not falling in one of those four directives still it can’t be regarded as sunnah… for eg beard.. correct?

      One question still comes to the mind that then if to determine sunnah correctly we have to put a lot of efforts then how can we say that it reached to us just as the Qur’an as with regards to the text of Qur’an there is no debate at all. But to obtain sunnah there is difference of opinion in its sources it self.. how do you explain this?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 19, 2022 at 8:58 pm

      There is one more thing that should be added here – the second part of Sunnah transmitted through akhbar-i-ahad has never been given the same sanctity like the first part of Sunnah transmitted through ijma and tawatur, even as per our classic traditional jurists.

      Ibn-e-Abdul Bar has written in his book, that religious status of person negating the first part of Sunnah will be judged, but the second part of Sunnah (akhbar-ahad) is only proof to act on certain matters, it is not a matter of belief in itself. Something similar is said by Imam Shafi regarding akhbar-i-ahad:

      وعلم الخاصة سنة من خبر الخاصة يعرفها العلماء ولم يكلفها غيرهم وهي موجودة فيهم أو في بعضهم بصدق الخاص المخبر عن رَسُوْلَ اللّٰہِ بها وهذا اللازم لأهل العلم أن يصيروا إليه

      And the knowledge of the select is the sunnah which is acquired through their reports, which the scholars know and which is not essential for the common man to know. This sunnah is present with all the scholars or with some of them from God’s Messenger (sws) through the information provided by a reliable informant and this is the knowledge which scholars must necessarily turn to“.

      (Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Idris al-Shafi’i, Al-Risalah, 1st ed. (Beirut: Dar al-fikr, n.d.), 478.)

      Secondly, Ijma and Tawatur are modes of transmission of Sunnah along with other things, what has been transmitted through these means, for it to be classed as Sunnah, it has to be religion by nature, among other things (Principles of Determining the Sunnah: Discussion 56177). In the case of beard, we are not questioning its tawatur, we are questioning its status as religion. Has it been in tawatur as a religious obligation or a non-religious custom? those who establish its religious sanctity do so only on the basis of Akhbar-i-ahad (which unfortunately is also seen out of context).

      Thirdly, Ijma and Tawatur are the most reliable modes of transmisison of any historical record/event/information and action. And hence the most reliable source of knowledge. Akhabr-i-ahad on the other hand, are secondary source of knowldge due to inherent limitations in their mode of transmission. Fiqh books incorporate that Ijma, they are not incorporation of akhbar-i-ahad. Akhbar-i-ahad when seen in their entirety, actually contain the application of that Sunnah found in Ijma and Tawatur.

      The nature of Sunnah is different as opposed to that of Quran. Sunnah contains actions/practical matters while Quran contains words, and considering their different nature, both are prone to different risks over time. Ijma and Tawatur are used in both these cases to trace them back, as an academic exerise for the scholars. But because of differences in the nature of Quran and Sunnah, the nature of Ijma and Tawatur for both these types are a bit different as well. This doesn’t bring into question the authencity of one over another. The same academic excercise is conducted w.r.t Quran as well (For Example: Discussion 47625).

    • Saddamhusen Saiyed

      Member May 21, 2022 at 2:00 am

      Jazakallah sir u have clarified in great detail …

      Can you please give the reference of ibne abdul bar’s book??

      Another question is whether our classical scholars have also delineated the principles of determining sunnah as ghamidi sb did like an act must have its status as that of religion? For eg case of beard

      I know that we are given those four types of ahkam in our religion and those only can have status of religion as suggested by ghamidi sb and I do find it very logical but still I want to know how our classical scholars see this issue..

    • Umer

      Moderator May 21, 2022 at 7:18 pm

      Following is reference for Ibn-e-Abdul Bar’s passage from his book ” جامع بيان العلم وفضله

      Chapter: باب معرفة أصول العلم وحقيقته وما الذي يقع عليه اسم الفقه والعلم مطلقا

      Volume 1, Page 778, Para 1452 :

      وَقَالُوا: أَبْقَى الْكِتَابُ مَوْضِعًا لِلسُّنَّةِ , وَأَبْقَتِ السُّنَّةُ مَوْضِعًا لِلرِّأْيِ الْحَسَنِ. قَالَ أَبُو عُمَرُ: ” وَأَمَّا أُصُولُ الْعِلْمِ فَالْكِتَابُ وَالسُّنَّةُ، وَتَنْقَسِمُ السُّنَّةُ قِسْمَيْنِ أَحَدُهُمَا تَنْقِلُهُ الْكَافَّةُ عَنِ الْكَافَّةِ فَهَذَا مِنَ الْحُجَجِ الْقَاطِعَةِ لِلْأَعْذَارِ إِذَا لَمْ يُوجَدْ هُنَالِكَ – خِلَافٌ وَمَنْ رَدَّ إِجْمَ‍اعَهُمْ فَقَدْ رَدَّ نَصًّا مِنْ نُصُوصِ اللَّهِ يَجِبُ اسْتِتَابَتُهُ عَلَيْهِ وَإِرَاقَةُ دَمِهِ إِنْ لَمْ يَتُبْ؛ لِخُرُوجِهِ عَمَّا أَجْمَعَ عَلَيْهِ الْمُسْلِمُونَ الْعُدُولُ وَسُلُوكِهِ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ جَمِيعِهِمْ وَالضَّرْبُ الثَّانِي مِنَ السُّنَّةِ أَخْبَارُ الْآحَادِ الثِّقَاتِ الْأَثْبَاتِ الْعُدُولِ وَالْخَبَرُ الصَّحِيحُ الْإِسْنَادِ الْمُتَّصِلِ مِنْهَا يُوجِبُ الْعَمَلَ عِنْدَ جَمَاعَةِ الْأُمَّةِ الَّذِينَ هُمُ الْحُجَّةُ وَالْقُدْوَةُ وَلِذَلِكَ مُرْسَلُ السَّالِمِ الثِّقَةِ الْعَدْلِ يُوجِبُ الْعَمَلَ أَيْضًا وَالْحُكْمَ عَنْ جَمَاعَةٍ مِنْهُمْ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَقُولُ: إِنَّ خَبَرَ الْوَاحِدِ الْعَدْلِ يُوجِبُ الْعِلْمَ وَالْعَمَلَ جَمِيعًا وَلِلْكَلَامِ فِي ذَلِكَ مَوْضِعٌ غَيْرُ هَذَا”

      (First Edition, Dar Ibn-al-Jozi, Saudia)


      Ghamidi Sahab has also explained this passage. For translation and explanation, you can refer to the following video from 32:30 to 43:13

    • Umer

      Moderator May 21, 2022 at 7:19 pm

      Following response will hopefully answer the rest of your question:

      Discussion 50830 • Reply 50870

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