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  • Celebration 12th Rabi Ul Awwal When Prophet Muhammad (Sws) Himself Kept Fast

    Umer updated 1 year, 7 months ago 3 Members · 13 Replies
  • Umer

    Moderator August 12, 2022 at 8:44 am

    Religiously celebrating it at a societal level would result in a new ritual in Islam which will be Bidat.

    At an individual level, any inidvidual act of ibadah can be done e.g. Prayer, Fasting etc.

    But making something new a religious ritual at a collective level would be Biddah.

    https://youtu.be/AYgCGP-et00

  • Abdullah AbdulRahman

    Member August 12, 2022 at 9:40 am

    Now celebrating Eid is festival given by Islam. But that Eid is celebrated by giving money to children etc on a national/societal level, so what’s the difference?

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator August 12, 2022 at 12:05 pm

      Money or presents are given as a way of celebration, not as religious rituals.

    • Abdullah AbdulRahman

      Member August 19, 2022 at 4:20 pm

      Prophet SAW used to pray some nawafil (extra prayers) which we call Sunnat e Muakkada and Gair-muakkada, and today Muslim societies pray that prayers on societal and national level as a part of the religion. Would this be also called bidat?

    • Umer

      Moderator August 22, 2022 at 1:13 am

      No, this won’t be called Bidat because it is a Nafal of an already instituted Sunnah and secondly, it has basis in Uswa of Prophet (SWS). The categorization of this Uswa is debatable and can be argued against, but since it is a matter of argumentation and placement and not a matter of invention in religion, therefore it cannot be called as Bidat.

      To underdstand Bidat at a conceptual level, please refer to following response by Ghamidi Sahab:

      Discussion 45013 • Reply 47615

  • Abdullah AbdulRahman

    Member September 15, 2022 at 11:03 am

    In this way nothing can be called innovation (Bida), why because everyone would have some evidence behind that. E.g matim, that becoming sorry, having sorrow and expression of that sorrow is permitted by Islam and one expression of that is matim (the one that Shi’ites do at 10th of Muharram), so it’s also ok?

    Another example which Hassan Ilyas sahab called Bida:

    From 12.55 to 14.05

    https://youtu.be/jiiFV07s7ZU

    Now he called that Ijma e Ummat as a source of religion is Bidat. But they have their evidences to call it a source of religion? Then why is it Bidat?

    • Umer

      Moderator September 16, 2022 at 12:46 am

      Just the way we call something Kufar but do not call someone kafir, similarly, acts will be categorized as Biddat but persons will not be called biddati.

      Please refer to the video below from 59:37 to 1:01:21

      https://youtu.be/oTx-5IF5HYE?t=3577

  • Abdullah AbdulRahman

    Member October 7, 2022 at 2:41 am

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjZndwyLzzG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

    I’m trying to get the principle here. E.g Quran has said that in two situations you can postpone your Ramadan but from these two situations Fuqaha derived a principle of hardship (mushaqqah) and applied it and gave concession in other situations also e.g for pregnant women. So here when Prophet SAW did celebrate his birthday by fasting on these days, so apparently principle seems to be that you can do worship acts for thanking God or expressing your happiness. So (here in the video in the link Hassan sahab did put many conditions but my question is in principle) if someone on 12th of RabiulAwwal prays two rakaats for thanking God or expressing his respect to Prophet SAW (applying the same principle as Prophet SAW did fast so i can pray also) without calling it a part of religion, then how is it bidat?

  • Abdullah AbdulRahman

    Member October 9, 2022 at 12:35 pm

    Ahaan,so this is the thing. One can express his love, respect etc as long as he does something nafali at an individual level. As fasting, praying, giving charity etc. But when he does it at a group level maybe regularly or by specifying some conditions e.g Salatul Tasbeeh on every Milad, distributing niyaz (some sweets or rice etc) and there is none evidence for it then it’s bidat. Right?

    And thank you very very much to you.

    Two questions only please:

    That if he specifies some conditions even at an individual level, e.g every monday will i pray 2 rakaat with Surah Ikhlas x10 etc. Then?

    Secondly, the principle i know is that if someone is adding something to religion saying that it’s just a good thing then it will be called bidat. And if someone has some evidence basing it then it will be called wrong but not bidat. E.g hijab. (If someone would have said that: indeed Hijab is not an Islamic command but in our culture it’s a good thing let’s make it a part of Islam, then it would definitely be a bidat). But in the above video, Hassan sahab is saying the concept of Ijma e Ummah (consensus of all Muslims) as an independent part of religion a bidat. But we know that behind it is an extensive strong argument by all the jurists etc. Then how is he calling that a bidat (then if that is accepted, why not to call the belief of Mahdi, or the return of Jesus AS, hijab, beard etc as bidat)?

    • Umer

      Moderator October 11, 2022 at 12:38 am

      – Praying 2 rakat as nafal every monday with Surah ikhlas ten times is perfectly fine unless one has assocated a new belief with that Salah without any basis for that (e.g special reward or special status associated with that salah etc.) etc. In latter case, it would clearly be a biddat.

      – Examples quoted above like belief in Mahdi, or the return of Jesus AS, hijab, beard etc. cannot be called biddat, since they have a basis for such interpretation (Some in Quran and Some in Ahadith). One well-known example of Biddat in today’s time is customs and rituals being done by Muslims of Pakistan after death of their relatives e.g. Quran-Khawani and other associated activities in the name of religion involving religious acts. This is example of Biddat at an application level/secondary level (‘fara’/’juzz’), but when such a Biddat is instituted at principle level (‘asool‘) then that Biddat will be called Deviance (‘Gumrahi‘/’Zalalat‘).

      Sources of religion are not extracted from arguments, they are the sources readily available and people do not have to rely on one source to extract the other, they may complement eachother or supplement eachother; but how can a source of religion be created out of argumentation solely. It must exist independently for it to be a source to begin with.

      There are no extensive arguments for this claim (ijma as source of religion). Just to give a picture, following are excerpts – one from classical jurist Ibn-e-Abdul Bar and second one from Shah Waliullah which are devoid of any such source.

      Discussion 69585 • Reply 69886

      Discussion 73943 • Reply 74166

  • Abdullah AbdulRahman

    Member October 21, 2022 at 11:34 am

    But those who consider Ijma a daleel, they have their own argument from Quran. E.g Quran 4:115

    And whoever defies the Messenger after guidance has become clear to them and follows a path other than that of the believers, We will let them pursue what they have chosen, then burn them in Hell—what an evil end!

    • Umer

      Moderator October 22, 2022 at 1:36 am

      The discussion has deviated from the primary question. Please start a new thread for discussion on Ijma as a source of religion.

      As stated earlier in my response, Source(s) of religion (‘Deen main Asal‘) is not something based on interpretation and argumentation, it should exist independently of any interpretation. When such an interpretation is made a basis to stand parallel to Quran, then of course it will be called Biddat and a deviance, as new source is being introduced, which was not independent to begin with and exists in defiance to Quran because of some remote interpretation of one verse.

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